The Ben Maynard Program
"Tell Your Story". Everyone has a story. Not just the famous. This is a guest driven program but when we are "guest free", It's just YOU and ME! I love music and we will talk a lot about it. Enjoy the ride!
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The Ben Maynard Program
EP. 73 Empowering Warriors Beyond the Battlefield, Marine Corp Vet Garret Biss is my guest
What happens when a military hero faces battles of a different kind after service? Join us for an enlightening conversation with Garret Biss, a retired Marine Corps pilot, who shares his transformative journey from a structured military life to the unpredictable civilian world. Garret's candid recollections provide a rare glimpse into the mental health struggles that veterans often encounter, including anxiety, depression, and addiction. Through his powerful story, Garrett sheds light on the importance of self-worth, mentorship, and rediscovering personal strengths as vital components of recovery.
We unravel the complex relationship between military service and personal identity, exploring the challenges veterans face when transitioning to civilian life. The sense of loss and the struggle to find new purpose can be overwhelming, often leading to a dangerous path of self-doubt and isolation. Our dialogue extends to the societal perceptions of sacrifice and value within the military culture, which can hinder veterans from seeking the help they desperately need. By examining these intricate dynamics, we hope to foster a deeper understanding and encourage supportive conversations around the veteran community.
This episode isn't just about highlighting the struggles but also about celebrating the triumphs. Garret brings attention to initiatives like Valiant Path and Warrior Reset, which are playing a crucial role in supporting veterans. We discuss the significance of community and proactive mental health measures in addressing high rates of veteran suicides. As we wrap up, I reflect on the heartfelt gratitude we owe to those who serve and the continuous impact of their sacrifices. Don't miss this compelling episode that not only informs but also inspires action in supporting our veterans’ journey toward healing and growth.If you're a veteran or know a veteran who might be struggling with civilian life and addiction reach out: unspokentrauma.vet or thewarriorreset.com #tellyourstory #familymatters #thebenmaynardprogram #garretbiss #valientpath #unspokentrauma #thewarriorreset
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Hey there, everyone. Welcome into the Ben Maynard program. Thanks for being here. Before we get things started, a little bit of housekeeping to take care of.
Speaker 1:As you know, this program is available wherever you stream your podcasts. So just search the Ben Maynard program and choose your option. Really, honestly, you don't even need to do that. But if you cannot resist all this right here and maybe some of that right there and you're watching on YouTube, then one, thank you. And two, please subscribe to the channel, Give me a thumbs up and leave a comment. I love your comments. And then, if you do subscribe or I should say when you subscribe hit that notification bell. I find that, through my own experience, that actually kind of makes a little bit of a difference. Last but not least, follow me on Instagram. Simply, Ben Maynard Program, all one word. So there are plenty of ways to take in this show for your dancing and listening pleasure, and with that, it really. This is going to be something different, something special today. I really, really believe it, and it brings me great pleasure to welcome into the program Garrett Biss. Thank you, Garrett, for being here.
Speaker 2:Ben, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited about this and I appreciate the opportunity Well.
Speaker 1:I appreciate you accepting the invitation. Let me start with this. Garrett is a retired Marine Corps pilot. He's an addiction recovery coach and a TED Talk speaker. It he's an addiction recovery coach and a TED Talk speaker. Post-retirement in 2015, garrett confronted challenges common among veterans anxiety, depression and a sense of displacement, turning to alcohol as a crutch. It wasn't until suicidal ideation took hold that he sought change. Rather than traditional addiction treatments, garrett's path was shaped by mentoring that emphasized self-worth, rediscovering identity and tapping into inherent strengths. This approach not only alleviated his addictive behaviors, but also reignited his passion for life and and people in all transparency. Those are not my words. Okay, those are Garrett's words. Just a just a tiny little clip of his, of his bio, and I wanted to introduce things that way and get the ball rolling. So so, garrett, you are a let me get this up too. I don't want to forget this right there. So you are a Marine veteran and number one. I want to say thank you for your service.
Speaker 2:And can you?
Speaker 1:talk a little bit about when it was you served and the like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, certainly. So I enlisted in 1999. And just out of high school. I actually graduated high school a little early so I could go off to boot camp in March of 99.
Speaker 2:Okay, and one of the biggest things on my mind then was there were some indicators in my adolescence that maybe I might make some mistakes and maybe I might not have a really successful journey forward in my adult life, Really had no idea what I wanted to do with my life or what I wanted to pursue.
Speaker 2:But I heard this quote one time that once a Marine, always a Marine, and at 14, 15, 16 years old I was like aha, if I were to join the Marine Corps, then for one, it'll give me a couple of years of experience, maybe figure out what I want to do with this life. But also, if I screwed up everything else and if my life really took a turn and went off into a bad direction, at least I could hang my hat on the fact that I was a Marine once. So that's what kind of started the journey. I really enjoyed it. I was offered some opportunities to go to get a commission for one, go to flight school. So I ended up serving just under 17 years in the Marines and retired. Took an early retirement in 2015.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's great. I've had some veterans on recently, especially, you know, celebrating veterans day last month and, and you know, for me, um, you know we spoke earlier. You know my, my father, was a Navy veteran, served world war two on a destroyer in the Pacific. He also served time. He didn't fight in Korea but he served during Korea.
Speaker 1:And I've had other family members, I've had several friends that have served in various branches of the military, various branches of the military, and so I, just I, I have such a great appreciation for the sacrifice that has been made, regardless of whether you leave it all on the battlefield, you know, and and you don't come home to your family or you do come home.
Speaker 1:I just I haven't, like I said, an admiration and appreciation for that and I don't think that for me, I don't know, it's just, it's weird. I think 9-11, I think the events of 9-11 is what really really struck a chord with me, and sending men and women out to fight shortly after that, I think that's when it really hit and I really started to appreciate the sacrifice that men and women make. And I think for me I mean, I'm 59 years old and I was certainly quite small when Vietnam took place. But when those soldiers came home, they were cussed at, they were spit on, they were made to feel less than that. They didn't even have a place in society. For me to fathom that, I can't even comprehend that type of reaction or behavior towards our, our service men and women. And um, so I just, I appreciate everything about our service members to this day, and past and present, and thank you so much yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2:I appreciate you for sharing that. You know, one of the things that I've really come in touch with and and really fuels my passion for working with veterans in the capacity I do, is understanding that, yes, there's certainly a sacrifice for the service and there's a lot that's given up and there's a lot that's invested in order to serve our country. Unfortunately, a lot of veterans continue to carry some of the burden of that service for the rest of their life and it shows up in many different ways. But we look at the population of veterans. There's currently about 19 million veterans in our country.
Speaker 2:As a population, veterans are more than twice as likely to suffer with mental health challenges or struggle with addiction At least 57 percent, probably more greater chance of committing suicide and they say that one in five post 9-11 veterans is going to experience PTSD at some point in their life, is going to experience PTSD at some point in their life.
Speaker 2:So it you know, and it really saddens me to know that somebody who stepped forward, who went, you know, volunteered to go into harm's way or do hard and difficult things in service of our country, that they continue to carry a burden because of that.
Speaker 2:And you know there's a lot of great organizations out there, there's a lot of great tools and resources to support veterans but they're not reaching everybody. They're not reaching all the veterans. There's the veterans, certainly, that are really struggling with a mental health condition. They go off to treatment or they find some program to really help them with that. But there's millions of other veterans that enter the workforce and they're just showing up as a fraction of themselves. They know that something's missing, they know that something doesn't feel right inside, but they don't really have the tools and there's not enough language out there or programs or awareness out there to help them understand that, connect with that and then get to that place. I wish every veteran that served has a thriving life and they're really flourishing and experiencing the joy and the happiness that they deserve after the service.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so. Okay, let me just kind of jump in right here. Okay, let me just kind of jump in right here and we'll just use the Marines. I mean soldiers, and it doesn't matter what branch of service, but we'll speak specifically, I guess, marines. Since you're a Marine, you know they're supposed to be the toughest of the tough. Okay, you know, mentally and physically you're broken down, down and then you're built back up to be one of one mindset and basically a killing machine. And I guess I mean why is does it? For some, is it so difficult to separate the civilian life from the military life? And if it is difficult, what makes a service member or former service member lean into drugs or alcohol?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question, man. We could unpack all that for a couple of hours. Yeah, that's a great question, man. We could unpack all that for a couple of hours. The biggest thing.
Speaker 2:So let's look at the time of their lifetime that many individuals will join the military. They're usually 18 to 22 years old. So we look at that from a personal development or a human development perspective. Our brains are still coming online. There's still parts of our brain that aren't fully developed yet. A lot of the parts of our brain and our prefrontal cortex that help us establish identity, that help us bring the beliefs and the values that we have to our experience, that's still being developed.
Speaker 2:So if somebody leaves high school and they join the military, so much about themselves that they're still learning and finding out is done through the lens of military service, and when so much of your identity is wrapped up in that military service and one of the things I talk about, especially in the Marine Corps, is the one I can speak for, but I know this is true in all the services there's this thing called this dichotomous ego. I don't know a better way to describe it, but the way I explain it is as far as the feelings that we have about ourself, our self-esteem, our self-efficacy. A lot of this comes from the values and the beliefs that we have about ourself, our self-esteem, our self-efficacy. A lot of this comes from the values and the beliefs that we have as our role in uniform. So in the Marine Corps we're told from our first days at bootcamp that we're better, faster, stronger, smarter, more capable on the battlefield, more lethal, and that we're in some regards we're like superhuman, like there's things that we can do, that we're capable of or that we're trained to do, that are different than the average person and certainly different than anybody outside of the military. So with that comes a certain confidence and with that comes this positive self-identity that, hey, I'm wearing this uniform and part of that is it represents all this capacity or this capability and this. You know the value that I have.
Speaker 2:At the same time, when you're in the service, it's also a very competitive environment. So there's also this thought that, man, that Marine can run faster than me, that Marine could do more pull-ups, that Marine's got shinier boots than me, and that hyper-competitive environment there's a little bit of self-deprecation that's fueling us in our growth, because we want to be better, we want to. You know, amongst our peers we want to stand out better. Well, here's the challenge when you take off that uniform for the last time, you lose everything that lifted you up because of the value that you have and that identity that you have because of the uniform that you wear. But you don't often lose that self-deprecation of like I'm not good enough as I am and I need to do things to be better, to be worthy or be good enough. So that's one element of the big challenge. I think that makes it difficult in that transition.
Speaker 2:The other big piece of that is a lot of the service that we provide. So we have a sense of value and a sense of positive identity and a place because of the service that we provide and we're willing to be of service. That's why we raise our hand, that's why we volunteer, that's why we go forward and do this. Unfortunately, there is this correlation true or not true, but there's this correlation, especially in the service that somehow your value comes from the amount that you're willing to sacrifice. We're willing to go and do very difficult things, we're willing to be uncomfortable, we're willing to operate in austere environments, and there's some.
Speaker 2:I don't know if bastardized is the right term, but, almost like, this bad relationship that we develop between my service is related to or somehow correlates with the amount of suffering that I'm willing to endure. So this is a huge challenge because with this relationship, if you take this relationship beyond the service, you almost feel like you need to suffer more to regain some of the value that you had. And this is what prevents, or this is a huge barrier that prevents, a lot of individuals from seeking help, because we're used to suffering and it's in some strange way we get our sense of value from our willingness to suffer. Unfortunately, that becomes a barrier to individuals seeking help, because they almost think that there is, you know, some sense of suffering that they're supposed to suck it up and just and just move forward with. So that's a huge challenge and in that, you know, in one environment it might serve a purpose and maybe it's what helps us, you know, do and perform as well as we can on the battlefield, but it certainly doesn't serve us outside of the uniform.
Speaker 1:The military is so regimented, you know everything is is just, everything is on schedule. And do do you know? Veterans find it difficult going back out into the real world once they either they they complete their enlistment or they retire after a lengthy career. They just find that adjustment difficult because it's not as regimented as it is when you are enlisted.
Speaker 2:That's certainly a part of it. I mean, when you enlist in the Marine Corps we're given an MOS even before a military occupational specialty. We're told what our job is going to be even before we go to boot camp. So once you're on those rails, yeah, there's not a whole lot of latitude for what you're going to experience. There's a handful of duty stations you can go to, there's a handful of maybe sub jobs that you can have in that MOS, but there's not a whole lot of latitude. You know, all right, every two to three years I'm going to be moving somewhere and there's only a handful of places that you can go and there's opportunities to do lateral transfers and move to different jobs. But for the most part, once you start your career, you know pretty much what your path is going to look like.
Speaker 2:I'll speak for myself. When I got out of the Marines, I was very overwhelmed. I still usually am overwhelmed at just this reality that now I don't have any rails that I need to guide, rails that I need to perform on. Really, anything that I could be interested in is an opportunity. I don't have restrictions, I don't have somebody telling me I can't do that. I don't have a detailer that's telling me where I have to live? No-transcript.
Speaker 2:You know a good thing help provide direction, context, bring some joy into your life. But one thing I've learned more recently is that meaning, as Dr Victor Frankel, who was a Holocaust survivor, who wrote Man's Search for Meaning, what he helped me understand is that a strong sense of meaning also provides our capacity to endure pain and suffering. So for an individual that joined the military because of the sense of meaning that they derive from serving their country, when they lose that, they lose a huge amount of their capacity to endure some of the hard and challenging times that comes up. So life's always going to have struggles and challenges. There's just things that are going to come up in your relationships, your personal health.
Speaker 2:And if you have a strong sense of meaning because of the job that you have or the identity that you have as a military service member, that allows you what you need that capacity to endure that suffering. When that's taken away now the same life challenges can present, but you don't have that capacity to deal with it in the same way, so that can be a huge challenge. So finding meaning and purpose is one of the biggest things that I advocate for and try to encourage veterans is yeah, having a job, having a big paycheck, that's nice. But if you can find something that provides some sense of purpose in your life, so that you you know, then that's the vital thing. And that can be with your profession, it can be with things that you do in your free time, some hobbies, some volunteer work that you do, but finding that sense of purpose and that that regaining that sense of meaning is vital for that transition.
Speaker 1:So basically, I mean a sense of self-worth. You know you, you've given yourself to your country and you come out and you're trying to find yourself again. Is that what it kind of equates to?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a big part of it and I think one way I describe it it's much like we go through a second adolescence. You know, you think of adolescence, you think of, you know our teenage years, our early 20 years, as we're trying to find who we are, what our place is in the world, how the world operates. We really have to go through that again, but without having that contextual understanding of it, a lot of veterans are left floundering or just trying to chase the next shiny object or trying to fill a void, but not really understanding what that void is. And that's where the uh, that's where this preponderance of addiction and and high risk behaviors really comes in, as I I understand it's a means to help numb a pain of something that you lost or help fill a void for something that's no longer there.
Speaker 1:See, you know, for me, I guess, because I haven't experienced addiction myself of any kind, you know, I've um seeing what it had done to my family as a kid you know, my father being a alcoholic and being a closeted one at that Um and it it tore apart our family. Um, at a very young age I was always um, very leery of of of alcohol. I didn't drink till I was, you know, well into my adult years, um, but just afraid of what it would do. But I and I've never done drugs, never done drugs, never smoked anything, never snorted nothing, nothing. Okay, I'm kind of a square really.
Speaker 1:But I've also believed that addiction is also based on a series of choices. I mean, you, you, you're going down a road and you can either go right or you can go left. One way is certainly not the right path and then another way is the way you probably should be going, and that's the way I've always perceived it, the way I've always lived it. I don't know if that's kind of making it too simplistic or not. Can you speak to that a little bit?
Speaker 2:Yes. So there's a lot that's discussed around this idea of choice and there's many different factors that go into so. One thing I always think about. So today, I believe there's an estimated 34 million Americans that are struggling with some form of addiction. It might be a behavior, it might be a substance. When I think about it I realize that that's 34 million different stories of circumstances, events, conditions, things that happen that led a person to that path or that struggle. So it can be challenging to understand it. Let's take a step back. So one of the I really love and follow the work of Dr Gabor Mate and he helped me understand some things about addiction that have been very helpful.
Speaker 2:What I love, one of the first things that really caught my attention was the way that he defines addiction. He says addiction manifests in any behavior that a person craves, finds temporary relief or pleasure in, suffers a negative consequence because of, and yet they have difficulty giving it up. So I love this definition because it really helps normalize this. Human behavior has got its hooks in you that you're using, or if it's a behavior, we've all had times where we look for something outside of ourself to create or synthesize a feeling inside of us and I'd say that's true of all addictions and anybody who hasn't struggled with an addiction there's still been a time where you're not feeling the way that you want to feel. You have some pain or something in your life and you reach for something beyond you. The other thing that I find is really valuable about this is for one that helps me understand that addiction doesn't manifest in just this arbitrary short list of substances and behaviors. It can be something that manifests in any way, and there's some more socially acceptable addictions. When we look at it through this lens, workaholism can be an addiction if there's some pain that you're trying to avoid or some pleasure you're trying to get. Yet your workaholism is creating a negative consequence in your life and you're having a hard time giving it up. It could be Netflix binging for somebody that just needs to disconnect and needs their social media. I mean, it's one of the fastest climbing addictions when we seek something external to us to help us deal with something inside, but it's creating a negative consequence. So that really helps me understand the broader nature of how addictions manifest and also provide some clarity on why they manifest or why they manifest for different people and, as we discussed before.
Speaker 2:One of the first questions that typically comes up when you have a loved one or a friend that's struggling with addiction is we ask you know why the addiction? You know why does Tom continue to drink after he's lost his job? Why does Sally continue to use drugs after she got, you know, lost her marriage or got a DWI? When we ask that question, it doesn't often lead us to a place where we feel like we have much of an answer or something that we can work with. If we think back to that definition of addiction as manifesting in any behavior that helps us alleviate some pain, manifesting in any behavior that helps us alleviate some pain. If we ask the question why the pain? This can be much give us a better feel for what somebody is going through. You know Tom's not going to return to drinking because the consequences he's well aware of the consequences. He's going to it because it's a learned behavior that when I feel this way inside, I know I can reach for this thing and I don't have to feel that way anymore.
Speaker 2:And the problem with a lot of the substances that people become addicted to is that their life situation that they couldn't handle in the moment without the drugs or the alcohol deteriorates as they're using those drugs and alcohol. So it creates this downward spiral and gets them to even a worse place. And then when your self-esteem and your self-advocacy and your sense of self-worth all begin to deteriorate and when you sober up and you have to confront the consequences of your action, you know this just creates a situation where you know it's more of a preponderance to continue that behavior. So it can be very challenging. Yeah, I think there's something else I was going to mention, but yeah, please go ahead.
Speaker 1:So, basically, once the high or the substance wears off and you realize what you're there to face basically you don't know how to deal with it you just get right back into it again. Oh, I'm back where I started. Let me just get right back into feeling no pain again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when you settle in, you look at the reality of the situation and some of the consequences because of your results, it's all right. Let's look at something a little bit more benign. Let's look at somebody who goes to work every day and they go home and they just sit there and Netflix manager will look at social media and as they're doing it, one of the consequences is the relationships at home begin to deteriorate. Well now, every time you walk in the door, it's more relevant or more you know more, more more apparent that your relationships are deteriorating. So it's like, all right, I know how to stop this feeling. Let me jump into this thing again. It's going to help me disassociate or help me kind of deal with that. And this is where and we'll come back to that point about choice.
Speaker 2:So, yes, there are actions that people take sometimes, but when we look at why they're taking that action, a lot of times it's to deal with some pain or suffering that's inside of us. For any of us who have not experienced addiction as somebody else has, where I try to come back to is gratitude that I wasn't in the same situation, where that was the only recourse to help deal with the pain in the time that I wasn't at that place and a challenge with something like alcohol or something that's very common is somebody's life might be manageable. They might have the foundation. There's a lot of alcohol. There's a lot of drinking in the military.
Speaker 2:When we look at some of those basic, fundamental human needs that we need, we need that sense of connection. As you're familiar, I just talked about my recent TEDx talk, about the unspoken trauma that all veterans face. It all stems from these basic human needs that we have. We have this need for connection. We have this need for meaning. Maybe, as you're living your life, you have that connection to your brothers and sisters in arms. You have this strong sense of meaning from the service that you're providing. When you lose that foundation, maybe you could have a healthier relationship with alcohol or with something else while you had that strong foundation, but now you're in a place where you've lost that foundation.
Speaker 2:Some of the challenges that are showing up in life are much more painful. Now. You feel less good about yourself. You have lower sense of self-worth, but you remember, hey, when I reached for this thing, I didn't have to feel that way for a little bit. So I'm going to reach for this thing, because I can't stand this moment and I think there's a lot of similarities between substance use disorder and suicide when we think about that moment that somebody reaches for something or makes that choice. They're not doing it because they love the consequences. They're not doing it because they think it's a healthy decision. They're doing it because in that moment in time, they can't survive, they can't endure that pain any longer without alleviating it or numbing it or trying to escape from it.
Speaker 1:I am relating back to my father's situation.
Speaker 1:You know, back then, in the forties, fifties and even much more recently as well, men didn't talk about what was going on with them, and especially guys who saw combat in World War II which was just about everybody who enlisted was no outlet.
Speaker 1:There wasn't this, um, um, there were no buddy programs. There were no, no outlets for them to talk about what they were experiencing, what they were feeling, what they were seeing. And for me, I always just kind of thought, all right, well then there's, you know, they find solace in the bottom of, you know, uh, in the bottom of an alcohol or liquor bottle. You know, and, um, I don't know if that's making it too simplistic or not, but um, yeah, only because it still goes on to this day and and I want to keep it more specific to veterans, because, as it relates to you and and and, what we want to get into or what we're getting into, but you know, like I said, you know, marines are supposed to be the toughest of the tough, you know, and and. So, if you have that mindset, though, then how do you allow something to get in and deteriorate that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question. So, and it comes back to one, losing that identity. So if you have that belief about yourself and there's some correlation to that value and that strength that you have, that's wrapped up in the uniform that you're wearing and now you take off that uniform, there's also a lot of in the culture, in the military culture, a lot of. If you're feeling discomfort, if you're feeling pain, suck it up because you don't want to be the one that takes away from the mission. So, as that's ingrained in us and let's go back to this you know, as we're developing our fundamental values and beliefs and understanding about the world, as we're in the military service, that we're adopting this, this becomes a part of who we are. So when you try to suck it up and you know so if you're in a certain amount of pain and you can manage it, but you don't want to do anything about it, and then you hold onto it and you suck it up and you continue to accept more burden and you continue to suffer more, because there's this strange relationship between the amount of suffering that you can endure and the value that you have, then it just gets to a tipping point. It gets to the place where there is so much pain that it can't be, you can't, you can't endure it anymore and there's a list of substances and behaviors that you can do to help mitigate some of that feel. So it's not like you're leaning into it, maybe even with the intention.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of people are almost complacent with that pathway into addiction because they don't realize how slippery of a slope it can be and something that is. We talked about this before. I don't think that a substance or behavior that's out there is good or bad. I think that a person's relationship to that substance or behavior can be good or bad, and also we think of the addiction or the addictive substance as the problem. But for an individual that's in that place, that's not the problem. That's a solution to a problem that rests deeper. Somewhere there's something that's missing. There's some. There's some pain, there's some disconnection, there's some loss of meaning, there's some loss of value, there's some guilt, there's some shame, there's some you know the night terrors, whatever somebody is dealing with like that's the problem, this addictive substance. That's my solution to the problem for this moment.
Speaker 1:Right, so for you. You said you enlisted in 1999, right, right, ok, did you. Did you see combat?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was deployed in Afghanistan. I was a C-130 pilot, so flying a lot over the battlefield, deployed in OUP and a couple other operations.
Speaker 1:So did those experiences? Did they lend themselves to you giving away to or giving into substances, giving into alcohol or anything like that? Do you think it was any of that?
Speaker 2:So my biggest challenge or one of the struggles I had and this is really what sparked my interest in delivering that TEDx talk is that I understand that, regardless of what a veteran or military service member experiences while they're in the service, that transition from military service itself can be traumatic. So my challenge was I, as I transitioned out, as I took out that uniform, I knew there was this void inside. I knew something didn't feel right. I knew I didn't feel right but I couldn't understand what that was. And I'd look back over my military service Like, was there one thing that could have been traumatic that now I'm having a hard time processing? And certainly there were some things that had that potential, but I couldn't identify something which made me feel even more defective or maybe even more messed up, because it's like, ok, I was having these symptoms, these PTS or PTSD symptoms, but I couldn't correlate it to one event or one circumstance. And that's what helped me better understand that.
Speaker 2:You know, it's the that for a lot of veterans, unfortunately, they experienced something that is traumatic and then they have the consequences of that if they're unable to process it effectively. But for every veteran that transitions out, there's a lot more that just losing that, that foundation, losing that connection, losing that permission to be authentic, losing that feeling that they have a you know, that positive self-identity, losing that sense of meaning in their life, the loss of those things that we're not prepared for in and of itself can be traumatic. So, regardless of what a person experiences but I wasn't, but I was, I had almost wished that I was like, oh, I wish I was in you know some plane crash, or I wish I had seen one thing, because then I could take that to a therapist and we could work through that. But absent of that, I didn't know what to do and because of that I felt even more defective, more, you know, helpless in a sense to getting any kind of closure or any kind of healing around.
Speaker 1:So at the time you were just. You just couldn't find what that one thing was. That was just missing.
Speaker 2:So your service ended in 2015,.
Speaker 1:Correct. So your service ended in 2015,. Correct, that's correct. Yeah, and were you experiencing any issues prior to you leaving the military? Or was it just like when you got out and now you're out in the real world? That's when it just kind of hit you like a ton of bricks.
Speaker 2:Yes and no. I think some was sudden, some was exacerbated over time. When I knew that my retirement was approved, then it certainly sparked a lot of anxiety, thinking what the heck am I going to do out there? I've gotten promotions, I've gotten these accolades, I've done great things in the military. Does any of that matter? Does any of that translate into the civilian world? And then also, as we talked about the unlimited possibility, what do I want to do? Do I want to go run a restaurant? Do I want to go be a fireman? Do I want to go into manufacturing? Do I want to be a salesperson? Do I want to live on the West Coast? East Coast, I mean that all of that latitude there was also overwhelming. So yeah, there were a lot of things there and, you know, started to lead to the severe anxiety, the panic attacks, and then that just continued to really slide as I transitioned out.
Speaker 1:Right. So it doesn't seem like it took, I mean, the things like click with you really sudden. Was it sudden that you was like, oh wait, a minute, something's not right, I'm not going down the right path. I've got to, I've got to course correct now because I mean, you left the, you left the Marines in 2015 and in two years you're co-founding um, you're co-founding your recovery residency in, in, uh, north Carolina, co-founding your recovery residency in North Carolina. So I mean, I think that's a real short period of time to recognize and get yourself where you need to be, to where you can now help others?
Speaker 2:Yes, and certainly I mean some things happen slowly and some things happen over time and continue to evolve. I've certainly continued to evolve since 2017 and learned a lot and grown a lot and adopted more. But really my journey and this is the story that I share in the TEDx talk Sorry for the spoiler alert, but I did get to a place where I wasn't shocked by the thoughts of suicide, like it seemed almost normal, like I'm going to go get a loaf of bread and then maybe you know, I'll do something horrible, irreversible. But when I, when that thought came up and it scared me, that wasn't uncomfortable. When the thought came up and it didn't shock me, that's what was uncomfortable and, as I said, I didn't know how close I was getting to crossing that line.
Speaker 2:I don't know what it looks like when you're one day before that happens or two months before that happens, but I couldn't say with certainty at that time that I wasn't going to cross that line and join the 22 a day. Fortunately for me, I had a buddy that was visiting me for a weekend and as he left, I asked him if he'd take away the firearms from my house, because I no longer felt comfortable being alone, if there was anything that was really the catalyst for me, like, all right, something's got to change, I've got to figure something out. Unfortunately, right around that time, go ahead.
Speaker 1:No, I was going to say, but at least there was a moment where something registered and you recognized hey, let me get this firearm out of here and then you could move. You know, once that was done, then you could. It seems as though maybe you could take the steps moving forward to getting yourself healthy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was certainly one thing that I did and fortunately, around that time I was introduced to the work of somebody who became a coach and a mentor of me for a number of years and his approach was helping me. I mean, he's really in the personal development and human flourishing space but through working with him he helped me do some things that that filled that void that I was trying to escape from and filled some of that pain or that disconnection and that loss of sense of meaning. And through the through working with him, I really started to repair some of that, started to fill that void inside, started to get some clarity on what I wanted to do with my future and where I was going to drive that sense of meaning from. And then, as I was going through that and as I lost this need to avoid, escape or numb the feelings that I was having and I felt I had a stronger foundation, I was getting some of my resilience back. It became apparent to me that some of the things that I was introduced to through this coaching work and this mentoring was not offered in the more traditional treatment route or wasn't talked about, discussed or provided in, whether it was a self-help group setting or through some of the treatments.
Speaker 2:So this is what kind of sparked my interest to, hey, how do I translate some of the things that I've experienced that have been really helpful for me and provide that to other individuals that have struggled with some kind of addiction? One thing that was really clear to me even at that point was that it wasn't a substance or behavior, that was an issue. There was something inside that was the issue. And for a lot of unfortunately, for a lot of individuals I see that have struggled with addiction, their pathway to recovery looks like let me remove substance or behavior and now I'm just going to white knuckle my life and try to avoid the temptation or craving to go back to it. To me that's a good first step, but that's certainly not the desired end state. That's not what we're trying to get to.
Speaker 1:No, because you have to find the root of the cause and then you have to be able to combat it from there or learn to deal with it Like you't, like you say you just can't take. Okay, let me just take all the liquor out of the house.
Speaker 2:Okay, problem solved, that's it, or whatever, whatever else the problem is and all your time and energy and attention is just focused on avoiding a substance or behavior. It's like if we could fill that void or help you deal with that pain that is that is fueling that craving or that temptation, we'll think of how much extra time and energy you're going to have to invest in something else. It's like don't just stand here and hold this heavy weight and see how long you can endure it. Like, let's put the weight down so then then you can spend. You know you can go engage in something else in your life.
Speaker 1:Well, and and I think that the substances, whatever it is, that are part of the addiction those will always be around, no matter what. You go to a restaurant, you go to a ball game, whatever it is, it's always going to be around, especially if it's substance-based. Whether it's alcohol or drugs, it's always going to be around. Just because you don't have it in your space at home, or whatever it might be, doesn't mean that it's over. You have to be able to deal with it beyond that too.
Speaker 2:That's right and put out the fire that's fueling all of that, because otherwise a lot of people, you see they have a lot of replacement addictions.
Speaker 2:Now maybe they're less unhealthy and maybe they're more socially acceptable, but the person that puts down the bottle, and now they have, you know, a two pack a day cigarette habit and they're always on caffeine like constantly like numbing that same pain, but now they're using sugar or social media or something else, like, okay, that's also not where we're trying to get to Like, yes, huge step forward, tons of progress, awesome Putting that thing down that was creating havoc in your life. But let's get to a place where you don't want to just avoid and escape and numb your life all the time. Let's get to a place where you're actually in control and leading the life that you want to experience.
Speaker 1:Because you can numb with tobacco as well. You brought it up. I mean, yeah, I'm not drinking anymore, I'm not taking drugs anymore, but I am smoking two packs of cigarettes a day and it's like, so what did I accomplish here? But but yeah, okay, you might not be, you know, you might not be passed out, you know, in a couple of hours and and pretty much worthless to everyone, but you're, it's still an addiction. So, um, yeah, talk about, I guess, some of the practices that have proven particularly effective with the veterans that you work with. Sorry, I'm a professional broadcaster and I'm knocking over my microphone.
Speaker 2:No problem. So one of the things I find that is most effective is helping a veteran or any individual really to reconnect with themselves and re-establish a positive self-worth and positive self-identity. So one of the challenges that we have and this is just part of our human nature is that it can be. It's very natural. Our brains are hardwired, first and foremost, for survival and for safety. What this means as far as our mindset and how we think, is that we can put a lot more weight and a lot more attention behind mistakes that we made in the past, things that we're not good at, things that we wish we'd have done differently, things that we're guilty about.
Speaker 2:Our mind's going to constantly ruminate over that. It's like opening up all these tabs on our browser. We're focusing on all these negative things because these could be potential threats to us if we don't change or do something different in the future. The other side of that coin is that many of the wins and successes, the times that we did something right, the times that we were a good person, a good friend, the success that we had at work, that's not going to be a threat in the future. So we quickly close that tab and our reality, our perspective is we're left with all these negative things that we want to avoid. Well, that doesn't make us feel great about ourselves. It certainly doesn't give us the confidence or the capacity to lean into and to present the best version of ourselves. So a lot of help can come from bringing some intention behind, focusing where our mind is and focusing on what we're focusing on really.
Speaker 1:Why do you think that is I mean for me personally? I can only speak for me personally, but I would say that you know, the smallest win that I get in anything the compliment that I get from somebody, the air and celebrate it because it's a good thing and then it takes away from any negativity. So are you saying that with the veterans that you're working with. It's kind of the opposite.
Speaker 2:I see that in a lot of individuals that haven't brought some intention to it. They don't have an awareness of it and they haven't brought attention to it. I mean, I think our default setting is a setting for self-preservation, which is why it can be natural to carry some of our losses with us. But with some intention and this is one of the first things I help individuals do is let's bring some intention back, and I call it giving credit where credit is due. So if you're going to beat yourself up for something that you misspoke yesterday or something that you didn't follow through on, why don't we give ourselves equal or greater credit for the little wins and successes that we've had along the way we're?
Speaker 2:not just celebrating the graduating from college. We're not just celebrating the big promotion that we get every couple of years. Let's celebrate the fact that we exercised today, that we drank some water that we get every couple of years. Let's celebrate the fact that we exercise today, that we drank some water, that we avoided temptation, that we're doing because these are all great things and when we can bring some more of that back into our awareness, this really makes a big difference on affecting the way that we feel about ourself and what we're capable of.
Speaker 1:Those are tremendous things actually. So what you brought it up earlier 22, 22 veteran suicides a day that's just 22 too many.
Speaker 2:Absolutely and unfortunately that you know that's a number that's been publicized the most but or publicized the most. But some recent reports I've read it's as high as 40 or 45. Wow, current estimates, especially when you bring in high risk behaviors that led to somebody's death. You know somebody might not be using a drug to get this feeling inside of this numbing sensation inside, but they're jumping on their motorcycle and they're going 110 miles an hour to get that sense of adrenaline that numbs the pain. Or accidental overdoses from somebody who got some fentanyl-laced drug, because unfortunately fentanyl is being found in everything from marijuana to cocaine to, of course, the opioids manufactured pills. People think that they're getting some opioid pill but it's actually a counterfeit pill and it's laced with fentanyl.
Speaker 2:So a lot of preventable death, a lot of intentional suicides, a lot of Not intentional trying to stay alive, challenges that are really kind of fueling that upwards.
Speaker 2:And this is a big thing and that's why my message I wanted to get out with that TEDx talk I want veterans to better understand the challenges that they're going through. It's not because you're defective, it's not because you're broken. It's because you're a human and you have basic human needs and the way that you met those needs while you were in the service was stripped away from you very quickly. So of course, you're going to feel some of these challenges. That's okay, that's normal. It doesn't mean that you're broken, you have any less worth. It's just something you have to process and go through and unfortunately, I've been sharing this message now for, you know, the better part of this year. Yeah, and one. I had one vietnam veteran, a clinician, that was in my audience once and he said man, I've been struggling with something inside since I got out of the military in vietnam and I never really could put a name to it or put a you know, put a face on where that struggle was coming from, until he, until he, understood it through that lens.
Speaker 1:How did that make you feel that this guy from Vietnam era came up to you and was like, wow, this is what I needed. I didn't realize it, but, man, it clicked.
Speaker 2:And it's sad. I mean I felt all the things right so sad that somebody for decades has been carrying something inside or struggling with something that they couldn't put a face to but really encouraged me like all right, I want every veteran to benefit from this message if they can. So any pain or suffering that we can help a veteran avoid is tremendous. And then for anybody who knows or loves a veteran to have that clearer picture, that understanding of what they might be going through, so that they can better show up and better support that veteran on their journey. So are you working?
Speaker 1:so they can better show up and better support that veteran on their journey.
Speaker 2:So are you working? Are you doing work with homeless veterans as well? Myself not explicitly, I mean anything that I can do. I mean as a veteran that's working in the space and trying to support other veterans. I constantly stay connected with any tools and resources that are out there, and there's a lot.
Speaker 2:Fortunately, there's a lot of people that want to help make a difference in the veteran space. There's over 43,000 nonprofits right now that have a mission to serve veterans in some capacity, so there's a lot of great stuff out there. So it's really important for us to network and understand all those tools and resources so we can connect somebody with it when they need it. Unfortunately, when somebody is in a dark place, you also don't have much capacity to go out and understand and connect with the resources that are out there. So that's how we can all become a great advocate or a great peer, for anybody is being aware of those tools and resources, so that when we find somebody in need, we can help connect them with it, and probably part of part of being a homeless vet is if you don't want to be found.
Speaker 1:or being a veteran, I should say, if you don't want to be found, you're not going to be found.
Speaker 2:You'll put yourself in a position where no one's going to be able to find you, and when you go down that spiral so long and you continue to to lose that sense of value and self-worth and think that you're so defective because you're suffering and you don't want to be a burden, and you were told to suck it up your entire military career, so that's what you're trying to do. You can really get to a place where somebody can't climb out of it alone and it really requires some, some intervention or some help from somebody else who's been there.
Speaker 1:Is there, um, is there one thing that you would hope that every civilian would uh know about the veteran experience? That could help them understand?
Speaker 2:Yes, excuse me, the message of my TEDx talk.
Speaker 2:Really, that loss of connection, loss of authenticity, the loss of meaning, what that looks like, how it's represented for a veteran.
Speaker 2:You know why that sense of that loss of connection is so great.
Speaker 2:For somebody who's experienced the kind of connection that a lot of civilians never get to experience, you know they have bonds that are forged that are much deeper and much more secure than what a lot of civilians, unfortunately, will experience. So just having some understanding of that also, that loss of the positive identity or a loss of ability to be authentic and just be ourselves, you know, one of the greatest things that veterans can do is be around and talk to other veterans so you don't feel so isolated, so alone in your journey or in your struggle. One thing I experienced very quickly in every veteran I've talked to is experienced some version of this when you get out of the military and you and you separate from that tribe that you're a part of, it's becomes very quickly apparent that we're cut from a different cloth and we have some different values, some different beliefs, a dark and crazy sense of humor that helps us deal with some of the suffering that we experience while they're in the military, a level of intensity that is not common in the workplace.
Speaker 2:And the minute that you feel you know we feel it inside, the minute you feel okay, there's something about me that maybe I need to show up a different way, or need to show up as a version of myself, or I need to hide something I'm thinking or some value or belief that I have that is detrimental to not only our sense of connection but also our sense of self-worth. And then, lastly, that sense of meaning and the value and the importance of meaning. It's not just a nice to have, it's not an icing on the cake. Really, it's our foundation for being able to show up as a human and live through the human experience and overcome those challenges and obstacles.
Speaker 2:So do you have, I should say, on staff, is your staff full of veterans? We have. It's mostly non-veterans. So this is at my recovery residence. We have non-veterans. They're all certified peer support specialists that work.
Speaker 1:We work on it in the non-clinical space, providing support for individuals. And then after, I mean, is this a program that just continues or is this something that a veteran seeking help they go through for 30 days? We'll use that because that's the, that's the, the norm, yeah.
Speaker 2:What I've typically done when I'm working with veterans is I have a 90 day curriculum, a 90 day program. It's okay yeah, it's called Valiant Path, and it brings in a lot of what I've learned through applied positive psychology, through human potential training, and it focuses on so applied positive psychology. They look at human flourishing and recognize that it shows up in five different pathways or five different areas of our life. So through this program we look at those different areas, whether it's that positivity or emotional resilience, whether it's that sense of meaning and purpose, whether it's our ability to engage, whether it's the relationships that we're fostering or our sense of achievement. That comes through bringing our best to what we're trying to work on. That comes through bringing our best to what we're trying to work on.
Speaker 2:So through that 90 days, there's a lot that we work on to address all of those areas, because one thing that I've really come to appreciate is there's five different pathways to flourishing. It doesn't mean you can just jump on one pathway and take it to where you want to get to. Everything needs to be addressed and you need to have a strong foundation. Otherwise, a lack of one of those areas can be a critical vulnerability that sets you, that sets you back or takes you back.
Speaker 1:Is there anyone that you, that you know, you, that's gone through the program, maybe had anybody come back and want to give back to the program and help out? You know, maybe there's a lot of people that are. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a lot of people that are interested just in the value of the work I haven't had, I haven't brought in. I mean that's a vision for the future, to have kind of a train the trainer program to help other people facilitate this work. Honestly, a big focus of mine now is I understand, the space that I've been working in is some of those veterans you know the mental health challenges, the substance use disorder, those that are really struggling at a place where they're clinically diagnosable condition, really having a hard time. But what I've become aware of and really in touch with recently is that there's many millions more veterans that maybe from the outside, looking in, they seem to have everything together. You know they got a new job when they got out, they seem to be on a career path. But for a lot of those veterans I speak with, they still suffer with something inside. You know the veteran suicide. It's not just from people that are struggling or have been struggling with addiction and can't get a job and their relationships are falling apart. That's certainly a big part but surprisingly and unfortunately there's a lot of veteran suicides from people that have their families still together. They have a job, a six-figure income and it seems like everything's going well and maybe they're able to use that in a way to move through some of this pain and suffering for a period of time, but ultimately having so much of a burden that it wears them down.
Speaker 2:I think of those individuals and I also think of the millions of veterans that are out there in the workforce that are showing up as a version of themselves that doesn't really excite them.
Speaker 2:They're not fully engaged, they're not really living into their potential, and that saddens me because of the experience the veterans going through, and it's also really unfortunate because what does that mean for our country? What does that mean for our organizations that these veterans are a part of? If they could provide that same version of themselves that they brought to military service, that level of impact and contribution that they can make in their communities, at the companies that they work for, will really benefit us a lot more. I'm really saddened by any veteran or anybody who raised their hand to serve our country and then doesn't experience a life as well lived as it could be after military service. So that's what I'm working on now is developing programming I can take into companies that have a lot of veterans in their workforce so that those veterans can show up as the best version of themselves and make the greatest contribution to their work can show up as the best version of themselves and make the greatest contribution to their work.
Speaker 1:Do you think that this type of addiction behavior, this kind of thing is, is I don't want to say do you feel that it can be exclusive to military veterans, or do you feel this same type of behavior can also relate to first responders, law enforcement officers, that type of thing?
Speaker 2:I think it can relate to anybody. It's just understanding the pathway that somebody takes into addiction, some of the challenges, the interpersonal challenges that they experience while they're there, and then some of the things or the opportunities for things that they can work on beyond their addiction once they start their recovery journey or try to seek a life beyond addiction. The thing with the veteran population is that we've all experienced military service. We've all experienced that, the challenges of transition from military service. So contextually it's easier to you know to kind of work with that audience, at least through this program. Now, before I worked with veterans exclusively as a recovery coach, I was working with, you know, with anybody. You know the civilian population. So there's, you know it all comes back to you know our human needs and what the human experience looks like.
Speaker 2:Certainly applicable to first responders. Actually, even a lot of professional athletes have had a similar experience. When they transition out of being a professional athlete, they've lost that brotherhood or that sisterhood, they've lost that sense of meaning. Their life no longer has a purpose. A lot of their identity is stripped away. So there's a lot of challenges there and this all comes back to. Let's zoom out, let's look at the human experience. What is it that leads people into these struggles with this external substance or behavior, and what are some of the things that we can do to fill that void and help them get back to a better place?
Speaker 1:Right, right, right. Are there any other organizations that you, or I should say, are there other organizations that you you collaborate with, you work with in conjunction with what it is that you do, helping our?
Speaker 2:veterans, certainly some that I'm connected with, and one of the one of the unique things and I mean this is where is every organization is best suited to deal with a specific individual or a specific case? And one thing is that this is in my recovery residence and this is my work as a recovery coach. One thing that I try to remind myself of I'm not here to serve everybody. I'm here to serve the people that I'm best suited to serve. So with that, yeah, there certainly are some collaborations and there's opportunities to work with and benefit from other individuals.
Speaker 2:Or if I come across a veteran and it's like, maybe the you know, maybe working with me right now is not the best thing for you, but I'm going to tell you this program out here it sounds like it could be a perfect fit. And it takes a little bit getting to know the veteran, getting to know their experience, to understand what could be a good fit for them at the time. But yeah, there's a lot of great programs out there there. Warrior Path is one that really focuses on post-traumatic growth, so I'm excited to learn some more about them. I've been in communication with them. And then Warriors Ascent is another great program, more designed for people that are struggling maybe more in the clinically diagnosable challenges that they're facing, but a lot of great work coming out of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I know that there's some, some grassroots or grassroots organizations out there that are really just, you know, doing their part to help out our veterans. Um, I don't even know all their names, but and I'm not even tired, I'm not talking about the big ones that get corporate funding. You know just, uh, that they take donations wherever they can get them from, like Horses for Heroes and organizations such as that that are just out there doing God's work for our veterans. And I consider what you do to be right in line with that, anything to help our veterans feel a sense of community again, a sense of self-worth again, to get themselves back to either where they were prior to their service or where they were at some point during their service, but certainly to a point where they can be whole again. Right, and I just I have a great amount of respect for you and for other organizations that are helping out in that capacity. It's tremendous.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, and individuals and podcasters like yourself that are helping provide a platform so that more people can learn about it. Veterans can learn about it, hear about it, and and also people that love veterans can learn and hear about it well, I you know this isn't, you know this isn't.
Speaker 1:This isn't, uh, normally what I do, but I welcome this and I do a whole lot of other different things on this podcast, but I, yes, if I can use this platform in any way to help out, to send a message out to anybody who might be struggling, somebody who see, if one person, if just one person, sees this and reaches out to you and says I think I need some help, you know I'm I got this going on here, this, that the other thing, then I guess I've done my job Right.
Speaker 2:Well, for any veteran that's listening, or really anybody that's listening it can be helpful, but, especially for any veteran that's listening, if you feel like something's not in alignment maybe you don't want to reach out, but you'd like some things that can help. I think I told you, ben, but I put together a special program that I'm happy to share with your listeners. It's called the Warrior Reset. These are four daily practices or actions that you can do each day that I've found to be the most efficacious and most quick changing or quickly beneficial to an individual. Anybody that's interested. You can go to thewarriorresetcom and you can get free access to it there.
Speaker 2:I challenge anybody that's curious. If you feel like something's missing in your life, you feel like something's out of alignment, or you're just ready to lean into 2025 and you want to have a slight refinement in the way that you show up, go check this out. I challenge you to do it for at least 10 days and then reach out to me, share any feedback or any thoughts that you have. But it helps emotionally, mentally, spiritually, even just kind of help get that refinement and get back to a good footing.
Speaker 1:So that we can lean forward with our best self. So that's thewarriorresetcom. Right, that's correct. Oh, that's great. That's great. So you brought up 2025. So that means we're at the close of this year, being the 5th of December. What do you have on tap for the holidays? How are you going to spend your holiday season?
Speaker 2:That's a great question. So we're going to stay home this year. Last year we went to Costa Rica to visit my wife's family. This year we're going to stay home and just enjoy some time together, without all the stress and logistics of planning and traveling. So I'm looking, certainly looking forward to it.
Speaker 1:Sometimes, home is the best place to be, so do you? Have you mentioned a wife? You have kids also.
Speaker 2:That's right. A 15 year old daughter and a two and a half almost three year old son.
Speaker 1:You didn't space those out at all. That's great. That's great. Oh, I love it. I love it, and I bet that you know this is certainly for kids. This is one of the one of the times a year they look forward to the most. That's right. They look forward to Santa Claus paying them a visit and, you know, enjoying time away from school and time with their friends, and all that stuff too. That's right. That's great. That's great. So where can people find you? If they're looking for you, why just give us your?
Speaker 2:socials, certainly so, anybody that's interested. First and foremost, I ask you to please go and check out the unspoken trauma. That's a place where you can view the 10 minute TEDx talk that I I delivered it in April. If you know a veteran, if you can view the 10 minute TEDx talk that I delivered it in April. If you know a veteran, if you are a veteran, go, please check that out and please share it with anybody. That might be helpful. There's also a way on there you can connect with me if you'd like to check out the warrior resetcom, and you can have free access to the warrior reset. You can find me on all the social medias.
Speaker 2:Garrett. This you can type that in LinkedIn is probably the best place to reach out to me for anybody that like to connect and for any veterans that are listening. If I could just throw in a last word to the veteran audience Absolutely, if you're in a, if you're in a dark place, if you're struggling, if you're suffering, know that, regardless of what you've gone through and regardless of what you're experiencing, that you are lovable and acceptable just as you are. And if you're in a dark place, there's been other people that have been in a similar place and there's people that can help you find a way out of it. So know that you are deserving of finding a better path or experiencing a better version of your life. Certainly reach out. If there's anything that I can do, reach out to somebody just so you can get to that better place. Regardless of what the thoughts are telling you right now, I believe that you're lovable and acceptable.
Speaker 1:I'm sure Ben will echo those words, but you certainly deserving and worth getting out of the place that you are and experiencing life the way you want to. Amen, and God bless you for the work that you do. Garrett, that's just, it's incredible, it's tremendous. And I'll tell you what. I can't thank you enough for the time that you spent, you know, coming on the podcast today. I greatly appreciate it. Um means the world to me. It really does. It really does. Thank you, I appreciate you.
Speaker 1:Well, I, I'm, I'm, I'm going to close out, but I want you to stay with me. Okay, you guys got it. Okay, uh, go to unspoken traumavet. That's one website you can check out, or check out thewarriorresetcom those particular websites. I'll make sure that those are in the show description as well. So, if you excuse me, so if you weren't able to write them down, I'll have them there for you, yeah, and then just Google Garrett Biss and you'll find him. You'll find all the socials and everything else. This has really been tremendous Just sound work, great advice, and if we can just help one person today, then we've made a huge difference, and I certainly hope so.
Speaker 1:But again, thank you very much, garrett. As you know, people, this podcast is available on all the streaming platforms, just whatever your favorite platform is, just search the Ben Maynard Program and you'll find it right there If you are watching on YouTube. Thank you very much. Please subscribe to the channel, hit the notification bell. That way you'll get notified every time there's a new episode. And, last but not least, follow me on Instagram. Simply Ben Maynard Program, all one word. This has been great. It's a little emotional. I lean back a little bit so people can't see me well up, but this has been great stuff by a fabulous guest, garrett Biss, and can't thank him enough. So again, we're done here. Folks, thanks for your time. Thanks for your time, thanks for being here. This is the Ben Maynard Program. Tell a friend.