The Ben Maynard Program
"Tell Your Story". Everyone has a story. Not just the famous. This is a guest driven program but when we are "guest free", It's just YOU and ME! I love music and we will talk a lot about it. Enjoy the ride!
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The Ben Maynard Program
EP. 84 Celebrating 50 years of "DRESSED TO KILL" Diving into Music Geekdom
What happens when two lifelong music obsessives trace their journeys from childhood record players to the present day? Magic, that's what. In this deeply nostalgic yet forward-looking conversation, I'm joined by Tommy Sommers from the world's largest KISS podcast, Three Sides of the Coin, as we celebrate the 50th anniversary of KISS's "Dressed to Kill" album.
Tommy shares the story of discovering his first KISS record as a child at Target while searching for something entirely different – a moment that would shape decades of his life. We trade memories of those massive wooden console stereos our parents owned, how our siblings influenced our musical education, and the remarkable freedom we experienced hearing everything from The Beatles to Motown on the same radio stations. There's something profoundly universal about these formative musical moments that connect us all.
Our conversation weaves through fascinating musical history – including the surprising revelation that KISS essentially bankrolled the disco movement when their "Alive!" album success funded Donna Summer's career through Casablanca Records. We analyze "Dressed to Kill" track by track, discussing how Neil Bogart's production choices buried the bass to create a more radio-friendly sound, and how Peter Criss's swing and big band background influenced his often underappreciated drumming style.
Beyond KISS, we explore the artificial boundaries between musical genres, why some fans feel compelled to hate certain styles, and how music festivals have changed from showcasing diverse sounds to catering to specific genres. Tommy's photographer's eye and wealth of backstage stories provide a unique window into music culture few get to experience.
Whether you're a die-hard KISS fan or simply someone who remembers the transformative power of discovering your first favorite band, this conversation celebrates the lifetime journey music takes us on. Follow Tommy's photography work and podcasts to continue the adventure, and share your own musical origin story in the comments below!
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Hey, hey, everybody. Welcome into the Ben Maynard program. Thanks for being here. As you can see, we have a guest today and we got a special one for you as well. But before we get started, a little housekeeping to take care of.
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Speaker 1:Like I said, this is a good one, and I'm just going to cut to the chase, get right to it and introduce everybody to my good buddy, tommy Summers. Thank you very much, tommy, and happy Saturday to you. Same to you. Thanks for having me on. Yeah, absolutely, listen, listen everybody, tommy. Um, tommy is one of three most of the time sometimes four co-hosts of like the biggest kiss podcast in the world. Okay, it's absolutely the biggest. It's a a great podcast and I actually it's called Three Sides of the Coin and you've probably, if you've been around, if you've been with me long enough on this program, you've heard me reference that podcast several times. I've mentioned Tommy, I've mentioned Mark, I've mentioned Michael, so it's just, it's a great podcast. These guys do a fabulous job, everybody knows them and they're just world-class. So, thank you.
Speaker 2:Very nice of you to say yeah, no.
Speaker 1:So, thanks a lot, tommy. It's so good to have you here. Thanks for having me, Of course, absolutely, um, having me, of course, absolutely. You know, you and I, and of course, michael and and, and, uh, and mark and lisa and izzy from time to time as well all absolutely just giant kiss fans, and we have been, you know, since we were kids. Yeah, and, and you and I, we're the same age. Um, you've got a birthday. You've got a birthday coming up in may, as a matter of fact, yes, I do, I know big six, oh, uh, yeah, but, uh, but you know, this week, uh, an album from our favorite band turned 50 and that's Dressed to Kill this one right here. Let me see, there it is. I got it right there. Okay, turned 50 this week, so I thought, well, why not?
Speaker 1:I was going to do a show anyway, but I thought you know what I'm going to text Tommy and see if he wants to come on, and yeah, so this is going to be good. I like it, you know so. But before we get into that, let's get a little background from you, tommy, I don't know. I like to ask some of the artists or musicians that I have come on, like when did you get the bug? When did music first hit you where it just you know it was a song, an album, something you heard on the radio, whatever it was, and just kind of hit you right here in your chest and you fell in love with music and that was it.
Speaker 2:Uh, goes back to my earliest childhood memories. I have older sisters and an older brother, so they had record collections. And I remember literally being five years old, probably sitting in front of my mom and dad's Fisher console one of those old fashioned massive things, you know and listening to two records in particular. There was a lot, but two in particular, over and over and over again. That would be sergeant peppers by the beetles and the rolling stones. Um, high tides and green grass, the rate greatest hits of the rolling stones. Those two, for whatever reason, stuck out to me more than everything else that was there. And we had other great stuff and we had motown, we had classic rock, we had all these different things because all of my siblings liked different stuff, but those were the two that really stuck out. And then the kinks greatest hits uh, as well, that was a.
Speaker 1:Those were the three biggies okay, your, your story is pretty similar to mine and I like the fact that our families had these big, huge console stereos made of real wood. You know, it was actually a piece of furniture in the house Totally Weighed about 250 pounds or so.
Speaker 1:Big giant 12-inch speakers in the cabinet and all that, just great stuff. And and for me, you know, my, my, my parents, primarily my dad, um would, would, um put on eddie arnold or jim reeves or nat king cole, and so I was accustomed to hearing that and um, but it was probably about 1972 and we had this and I've told the story on the show. So, people, if you're, if you've been here for 83 previous episodes, you can turn down the volume. But, um, my mom had, uh, the 45 of the Beatles, let it be, and she put that 45 on the stereo and she sat on the floor in front of a typewriter, uh, in our family room, and as it played she was typing out the lyrics to the song and, um, not to say that she got it all in one play, and as it played she was typing out the lyrics to the song, and not to say that she got it all in one play, she, you know, obviously got to, you know, start and stop and that kind of thing, but she pounded out the lyrics to that on goldenrod paper and I remember I took that sheet of paper and I would play that 45 over and over and over again and I would sing that 45 over and over and over again and I would sing to let it be, and I remember that.
Speaker 1:I don't even remember the B side. I know it was a John Lennon song and I hated it, but that's about all I remember. I think it was. Yeah, I don't even remember either it's something about knowing somebody's name or something like that. I can't recall, but but that's kind of when it just it seems like it's stuck. You know, and I don't know, I know, for guys like you and I, we just we seem to have a special relationship with music.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'm not really sure why it hits some people and not others. And it's weird how it's changed, because when we were kids, the thing to do was to buy the 45s, not the LPs. And so at first, when I started buying things for myself I was quite young and I earned an allowance they would take me to Target and Target had like a huge wall of 45s, like all the latest hits, and then obviously represses of older songs and that sort of thing, and so it was interesting because you could. You could buy Deep Purple Smoke on the Water and you could buy the Carpenter's Superstar at the same time, released about the same time, or at least about the same time, and you never thought twice of it as a kid, because at that point music was different than it is now.
Speaker 2:They didn't categorize it the way they do now, and I think that that also has destroyed some of the love of music, because I know too many people that they get stuck in a genre, whatever it is, and they don't go outside that genre.
Speaker 2:And I've never really understood that, because to me that's no different than eating at the same restaurant every single day. Why wouldn't you want a variety of different types of food or experiences or music, because it's like if it's a good song, it's a good song. It shouldn't matter whether it's Linda R, it's a good song, it's a good song. It shouldn't matter whether it's linda ronstead with a nelson riddle orchestra or it's some death metal band out of you know norway, I, whatever it might be. But right, that's changed. You know even the, the, the festival bills have changed. Now it's all metal, or it's all country, or it's all pop or whatever it is, and you don't have that crossover anymore. So I think there's a lot of people who've lost that ability to see a song for what it is rather than to compartmentalize it into a genre or a style.
Speaker 1:I completely agree with you and I've talked about it before. And when we were growing up, top 40 radio played everything. I mean you'd have a rock song, an R&B song, a country song in the late 70s, a disco song, whatever it was. You had everything back to back to back to back, right. And so we were exposed to so many different genres of music and I think that's why I won't say my tastes are eclectic or anything like that, but I do like many different genres of music and I mean I love disco, I love, I love, you know, the new wave stuff from the early 80s or from our high school days, that kind of stuff. I mean.
Speaker 2:So, um, somewhere along the line, radio forgot about all that stuff and it just became so, so segmented, you know yeah, and I'm not sure what it was that changed, um, maybe it was the 80s or even the 70s, because then people started buying the lps. You know, I'm really I'm not really sure what it was that changed, but it I think it really uh, took its toll on a lot of people that love music because they didn't know how to go outside of their comfort zone's not the right term, but they didn't know how to go outside of what they're familiar with to try something new that they might end up liking now. I also, too, grew up next door to two people bill fricke on one side, rick carpenter on the other. Bill fricke had three older sisters, yeah, and he was my age, and so they were into like, um was my age and so they were into like, um, oh, uh, edgar winner and frank zappa and todd rundgren and rick derringer and all this. I'm like holy shit, I learned all about that. Then on the other side, on literally on the other side of my house, was uh, rick's place and his parents bought um a record collection from a dj, and so everything were. It was all LPs and it was 50s and 60s. So that's where I heard Eddie Cochran, elvis Presley, you know all the Motown stuff, all of this, the quirky, goofy, stupid 60s songs, just like they had in the 70s. So I had music all around me from all different types of genres and I feel like I was blessed that I had more of a rounded musical upbringing.
Speaker 2:And the perfect way to say this would be some of you that are actually listening, that are KISS fans. When the solo albums came out, I didn't have any preconceived notion about what they would or wouldn't be, and the Peter Criss solo record takes a huge beating from a lot of KISS fans because it's not. Whatever it is, I love that record and I love that record because of all of my other influences. It's a great record. It's just not what you would expect probably him to do, but it doesn't mean that it's bad. And there are expect probably him to do, but it doesn't mean that it's bad. And there are so many kiss fans that just can't stand that album because they probably never listened to, I'm assuming, a variety of different types of music.
Speaker 1:I don't know right and and you know what to to that. First off, when, when the, when the solo albums came out, we knew Kiss for what they were. We only knew what we read about them in Hit Parade or Circus or Cream or 16 or whatever magazines that they were in, and we didn't realize the different musical backgrounds of each member of Kiss. Nobody realized that Peter Criss came from a big band swing background and that's what he grew up in and that's what he actually. Those are the type of bands that he played in before Kiss.
Speaker 1:And so when you hear that kiss, and so when you hear that, when you first put the needle on Peter's album, you're like what is this? I mean, this isn't anything off of Love Gun or Hotter Than Hell or anything like that. So you're shocked and you don't have to think. But for us music geeks, as time has gone on, we get it, we understand it and we not just accept it, but we take it in and look at it a lot differently and realize, okay, this is where Peter was coming from and that was what he was expressing at that time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and I just never gave it any thought. I just was excited I was getting four Kiss records and they were. The only one I didn't like was Jeans, because it was just too, I don't know, it was just shitty, I don't know how, and it wasn't again, I wasn't that I was expecting anything from him, but you have a tendency I think we all do to gravitate towards the songs that you love for whatever reason, whatever they are, and I just felt like so much of the stuff that was on that solo album, like when you Wish Upon a Star and then when he Redid See you in your Dreams, which is just fine on Rock and Roll Over it just, and man of a thousand, I just it's like it's just. I don't know I wanted the whole record to be like radioactive right, right, I, yes, I hear you there.
Speaker 1:Um, you know I don't have as much a problem with gene's solo album as a lot of other people. But but to what you said, where peter's peter's just kind of go, it's like the other three ace paul peter, whatever the sound of that record is, it's pretty much consistent from the beginning to the end.
Speaker 2:Where jeans is like this yes, and there's just too much stuff on there that I just don't appreciate yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, like even the, even the, the the solo album he released.
Speaker 1:What was it? 2004 or five, whatever it was. Asshole yeah, that's the same thing. It does this. It's got some good stuff on it, but but it's just, man, it's just up and down all the way through.
Speaker 2:And I liked his stuff in Kiss. I love a lot of the songs that he writes. I mean, he is an amazing songwriter and that's why I think I was even more confused by the whole thing. And it's just to me and that's kind of the point, at least from my perspective is, if the song is good, I like it. I don't care who it it, I don't care who it is, I don't care what it is. Either I like it or I don't. That's no different than liking pizza. Some people like thin crust, some people like deep dish. Neither is right or wrong. It's just what you like. I just think that the minute that you stop trying to find new music, you're cheating yourself, because there's so much great music coming out right now. You just have to look for it and make an effort.
Speaker 1:You know, and I was going to get into this too where, like I said, we're both music nerds but for me, I I would say my, my musical, I I would say my, my musical. I don't know what, um, I don't want to say taste or anything but but the stuff that I really dive into, I would say mine is like so okay, yours, you have a lot more breadth to what you enjoy over what I enjoy, and I just know that from one talking to you and two, seeing everything that you post on your Facebook page about the different bands that you go see, and listening to the podcast as well. So, yeah, you've got a lot more breadth than I do. But I know that when I dig into something, when I like something, I really dive into it and I want to know just about anything and everything there is to know about it.
Speaker 2:Well, and I'm always being accused of not even being a KISS fan. No, seriously, we get hate mail that like, why is that asshole on the show? He's not even a Kiss fan. Because it's like, I look at things differently and I'll give you a great example. There are all these people who are so excited about Off the Soundboard Right, fine, look, if you would have told me 50 years later, because I've been a fan for almost 50 years now, because Dressed to Kill is my first record, okay, good. Later, because I've been a fan for almost 50 years now because Dressed to Kill is my first record, okay, good, we're gonna.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all right, yeah, uh, I um it's, I don't even know how to explain it. It's you just get used to different things by trying different things. Yeah, and I don't think that I have to be a heavy metal fan to be a KISS fan, and I don't think it's wrong for me to like Billie Holiday. I can still be a KISS fan. But that's a problem with some of the fans and I'm sure that Zeppelin has it and all these other bands do too. They almost feel like you're being disloyal if you don't love everything the band does, which is ridiculous, because even the band doesn't like everything. That we know that. Yeah, exactly, and I I don't think that you have to pigeonhole yourself like that because there's so much great, like I said I'm going to keep saying it there's so much great music on there, there's so many wonderful bands well, I think you know going we'll, we'll steer the ship back a little bit.
Speaker 1:I I when, when we were kids and we first became kiss fans. You know, kiss, there it wasn't any kiss album wasn't my first album that I bought we're going to get into that, I'm going to ask you that in a minute. But but, um, they did become my first favorite band of all time. I mean, it was like anything and everything kiss, and I kind of held other bands at bay because it was like I, you brought it up. I don't want to be like disloyal to my fandom of KISS, you know so everybody else was a was a threat to that. Until you know, probably until I got into to KISS. You know a couple of years, you know probably a couple of years past. And then I was able to get into Aerosmith and and it was probably, I wouldn't say Van Halen, but but maybe a little bit of Van Halen I was never, never, huge on Led Zeppelin.
Speaker 2:And where was I and I? But I have several of their records and I like them. I mean, my brother introduced me to them. It's kind of funny. I remember the maturation process of my musical interest or taste. It started with the kinks. You really got me thinking that was the heaviest thing I'd ever heard in my life, going holy shit. Then I hear Helter Skelter by the Beatles. I'm like oh my God, okay. And then Zeppelin IV Crazy heavy song, yes. And then Zeppelin IV comes out. My brother brings it home.
Speaker 2:I remember it was 1971 and he puts on Black Dog and my mind was blown. Yeah, but I don't think it was disloyal, I think what it was, because there was a period of time that that's almost all I listened to and I guess, because you're wrapped up in the whole thing, it goes beyond the music. That's the piece a lot of people don't understand. Is there something special about that band that's different unto itself that it takes something so remarkable to crack the veneer for you? And when you're a kid, yeah. And so what cracked the veneer for me was eruption when we were up in the yard playing ball and someone brought over the first van halen album and just come out and they put on. You know, know, and I heard you really got me, I was a but eruption. We were all just, we stopped what we were doing and went and stood over this, you know, boom box going. What are we? You know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the world is that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I mean, I would say, during the time period though, even when I was in the deepest throes of my fandom for Kiss, I still was listening to other stuff because they weren't my first band, my first favorite band was the Beatles. I would say the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, the Monkees and Elton John. Those four, I think, have more to do with my musical history and love of music than any other four acts I can think of.
Speaker 1:And those bands there that you just mentioned are for a lot of the bands that we like that came after that. They're the foundation, they're the reason why those guys picked up guitars and started writing songs and playing instruments. Because of the Beatles, the Stones, the who, you know, the Kinks, all those British bands that came over in the 60s.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I also don't fault any band for actually selling records and making money. I think that whole idea of a sellout is stupid. You know, like if you look at the newest LA Guns record, leopard Skin, which hasn't come out yet it'll be out in a couple of weeks. But I just did a review for the album. Yeah, holy shit, is it good. There's not one throwaway track on there and it just oozes the kind of songs I love and it's nothing like.
Speaker 2:For those of you that are listening that are 80s hair metal fans, it doesn't sound anything like 1980s LA Guns. It sounds like where they should be right now. They've moved forward, but they're still able to write this really great rock record and I feel bad for them because I think it's not going to do well. And I think the reason it's not going to do well and I don't want to predict the demise is that people aren't going to give it a chance simply because it's LA Guns. They make an assumption about something based on, you know, a preconceived notion from the past. And if you're a straightforward rock and roll fan, this is a great record. Go out and buy it. I would say the same thing to you about Buck Cherry and there's. So I mean, I could go on and on and on about all these bands.
Speaker 1:I know you could no LA Guns. You know the sad part is. And to what you said about the album selling or not, yeah, it's probably not going to sell because nobody buys music anymore. Nobody buys it in the physical form anyway. You know, I mean you will, I will. You know there's a few people out there, but not enough to sustain anything. But at least you know the bands that we like, and LA Guns is one of them, especially since Phil and Tracy have come back together. They've been very prolific and every every couple of years they're putting out new music and it is, it's so good.
Speaker 2:Um and and and. The tragic part for me is is that I'm going to go and see them inevitably sometime this year, because I think they're touring with Tom Kiefer, who's a number I absolutely love, and they'll maybe play one song off this record and I personally would love to see them play the whole damn thing. It's literally that good.
Speaker 1:Now that's how I feel about missing piece. That thing to me, front to back, is dynamite and you know they play speed and you know. Maybe you know and they Speed and maybe that's about it. But they've got to go and play all the early catalog stuff Just like so many of our other favorite bands. Like I said, music geeks, we love the bands that we love and we dive deep into them and we don't necessarily care for the hits.
Speaker 2:We want to hear all the deep tracks, we want to hear the stuff that never gets played right and unfortunately, um, that's not the world we live in, because so many of these bands are now playing festivals or they're playing multiple bill. You know types of shows where they have to play the most familiar stuff or the crowd will just leave. You know, I had one conversation with Tommy Thayer about this. We were talking about different Kiss songs and why he can't get them to play these different things. And he's like, well, we've tried some things and I mentioned a couple of songs. I can't even tell you what they were at this point. We were just talking about it backstage and he's like you know, we tried X and he said it's just like the audience's eyes glazed over and it just doesn't work.
Speaker 2:Because if you go to a KISS show and there's I don't know 18,000 people there, of that 18,000 people, at least 50% of them have never seen the band before they're going because they've heard it's a spectacle. And then I would say, of that remaining 50%, 40% are casual fans. And if this wasn't true, then the tribute bands wouldn't complain the way they do about the set list, because they want to go deeper and that's what I would want to see in a tribute act. I mean, there's a lot of reasons why Kiss does and doesn't do it, and I've given up trying to make the argument about the set list. But the point is they're playing the most familiar songs. They have to appease the broadest audience they possibly can. That happens to be in front of them that night and that's actually what their job is.
Speaker 2:Now, if we are the type of people where we go and see multiple shows, that's on us, that's not on the band. Yeah, and not everybody can be Bruce Springsteen. And you know, and let's face it, bruce Springsteen has a 70s light show. He puts on an amazing three-hour performance. Okay, but there's no pyro, there's no special lighting, there's no effects, there's no, nothing, and so there's no, with no choreography. You can pretty much do whatever the hell you want to do.
Speaker 1:Well, not only that, bruce will play a three hour show, but he's probably only fitting in about 12 songs, because he talks for an hour and a half. There's that too.
Speaker 2:And so you just need to, you just need to kind of, I think, set your expectations so like if you know. That's why, when people say, well, kind of, I think, set your expectations, so like if you know, that's why, when people say, well, what's you know, give me, you know, some of your top five KISS shows you've ever seen. One that's in the top five for me was at Chuck Brennan's pawn shop in South Dakota. He had opened this it's no longer there now but it was a pawn shop that was a studio, slash, entertainment complex, stage, huge screen behind it, and what they did is everything that they had in the pawn shop was on rollers.
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they would just roll everything out of the way. Well, this was a KISS show, it was acoustic and it was for a charity, and that's the first time in many years. I remember standing there just like in awe because I didn't know what was coming next but that's the way they would always do their acoustic sets, which I mean so there's your opportunity if you're a Kiss fan, if you want, you want to see.
Speaker 2:But you know what, when they did that, the tour, the convention tour, there's some assholes sitting in front of me yelling I love it loud and it's just like you, dumb son of a bitch. Really, this is an acoustic show. And he'd be like, okay, okay, what songs haven't I heard, or what songs would they do? That could be cool acoustic. Well, for those of you that are not kiss fans, I love it. Loud is not an acoustic song in any way, shape or form no, no so you know you're also dealing with that.
Speaker 1:I tell you what one of the best set lists I've ever heard was. Kiss Unplugged the MTV. There you go, but the whole thing, not the edited version, the whole.
Speaker 2:Thing. Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:That was probably one of the best set lists that I've heard, but that's because I want to hear stuff that they don't play and, um, and that's what they did that night. And look, the, the, the. The one time, the one show that you and I were at was the Vegas residency back in 2014. And, and you know, I think, did they play Creatures of the Night? That show? Yes, yes, okay, and they also played Tears Are Falling, but they played those two songs. And guys like you and I and Michael, who was there as well, we're going to stand on our chairs, we're going to be pumping our fists and you know about 80%, 90% of those people are going to just be like standing there with their arms folded. Hey, I want to hear detroit rock city. Come on, hurry up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the ultimate example for me of a band that destroyed itself was aerosmith. Because when I'm at an aerosmith show and they're playing kings and queens or Seasons of Wither and my friend and I were like oh, and everyone in the crowd behind us is just like what's this? And then they do. I don't want to lose a thing. And these people go crazy and I'm like, okay, where's the gun? So I can shoot myself in the face. Yeah, yeah, exactly Because Aerosmith died in the early 80s and I'm not taking away their success I'm not saying it's wrong that they did what they did, but it's just not even a band I recognize anymore. At least with Kiss I totally know who they are. Same with Cheap Trick. I mean Cheap Trick's. I would say Cheap Trick and Blackberry Smoke are two of the best bands to see live, where you won't know what they're going to play.
Speaker 1:You're right, that's the thing about Cheap Trick, cheap Trick. They don't look. They can play any song in their catalog at the drop of a hat. They don't even rehearse, I know but they can.
Speaker 2:That blows my mind.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they just okay and they'll change their set list every single night.
Speaker 2:That I want to say dax nielsen, the drummer who's rick's son, he saved that band. When he joined that band, he saved them. He changed him up a little bit. Well, no, he saved. He saved them from death because bunny carlos is such a miserable curmudgeon well, and he didn't want it.
Speaker 1:You're right, he didn't want to play all this other stuff, he wanted to play the same. You know 12, 15 songs every night, yeah, but. But but what's what's weird? Yeah, I know people dressed to kill. We're going to get to it. But you know, with cheap trick fans, they come to expect that and they have no issue with it at all. They look forward to it. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, except a couple of songs, because it's kind of become a running joke for me that every time I see them I'm like play up the creek, which is my favorite Che trick song, and most people hate it and the band hates it. So I'll be standing on the side of the stage and Dax is playing drums and I'll be like you know, and they just look at me like, oh God, really again you know, so yeah you know, it's just again. It goes back to what your tastes are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know. Yeah, well, look, okay, I know we got way off topic, but, like I said, we're just I mean, we're two guys talking music because we love music so much yeah, we do. Now we could spend the rest of the morning here in the afternoon, where you are talking about everything except KISS. But because we're supposed to be celebrating KISS and Dressed to Kill turning 50, then that's exactly what we're going to do. So, all right, so let's kind of get back into it. So, march 19th that was what was that? Was that Wednesday? I think that was Wednesday. Yeah, that was, that was the 50th. That was 50th anniversary of the release of Kiss's third studio album, dressed to Kill. Yep, and you already mentioned it, you said that was your first KissISS album that you bought. Yes, for me, mine was KISS Alive, and that's how I got introduced to KISS was KISS Alive, and so then I had to, kind of, I think I went forward before I went back.
Speaker 2:But what was your? All of our journeys are different you know, oh yeah, of course.
Speaker 1:And when did you pick that album up?
Speaker 2:That would be, I want to guess, spring, or probably late spring of 75.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you, you did get it on the initial release then.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it wasn't like on the release date. I was too young to understand any of that. Yeah, yeah, of course. I actually remember the day like it was yesterday. It was at target and, uh, my brother took me there cause I wanted to buy a record. My dad gave me some money to buy an album because they knew how much I was into music and I would go to shop every single week and I was looking for a Monkees album called Refocus and it has a cool cover. It's like an old camera with them in the lens and it's nothing more than a greatest hits record. That's all it is. If you look at it, it's really actually quite disappointing. Nothing like, you know, barrel Full of Monkeys or some of these really cool compilations they have.
Speaker 2:And I was looking for that record specifically because I had seen it in a different store and I wanted it because I was like into the monkeys and they didn't have it. And so my brother's like well, why don't you try something different? Pick something else out? You know, much to his dismay, I'm filing through and I see drastic killing. Oh, this looks cool. And he's like no, dude, he's like you don't want that.
Speaker 2:I remember the conversation. He's like, why would you? That's? That's because he's into bob dylan and, and you know so he like he even tried to to mess with me when we were, when I was younger, when we would have christmas, I would ask for a kiss record or something, and he'd give me fleetwood mac. But I'm just like, really, come on, man, you know.
Speaker 2:And so that's how I ended up with it and I took it home and I was just mesmerized, but also, too, it was still so young that I didn't the thought hadn't occurred to me that they have other records, because I remember being really young and listening to Sergeant Pepper, like I told you. And then I went over to my sister's house and she was living with her roommate, mary, and Mary was a big Beatles fan. And I remember, literally I remember to this day I couldn't have been more than seven years old, maybe eight, sitting in their room or in their living room at their apartment, thumbing through these records. And I pulled out Rubber Soul and I think it's because it was such a weird cover. Right, right, it's this. I had no concept that there were other Beatles albums. I didn't know. You know when you're a kid, but you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, exactly, so you were just. You took to Dressed to Kill, like right away.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh God, yeah, because I sat there and just I was mesmerized by the look. I was just like this is unbelievable. And it's the same kind of thing that joe elliott told me. We were talking about kiss, and joe elliott from deaf leopard, and he said that he remembers walking down the street in his hometown and he had never heard of them before, and there was this massive display for destroyer in the window and I remember him saying to me he's like I looked at that and thought, if this sounds anything near as cool as it looks, I'm gonna love this record. And it turned out that that was exactly the case for him. It was the same thing with the dress to kill, you know, and I probably put away a bowie record, I probably put away a rick derringer album and several different things. They just wasn't quite sold on. And I saw this cover. I'm like, oh, this is cool.
Speaker 1:You know, oh yeah, really, where the journey started I, and I think that's how I mean come on, we on, we're kids, we're kids, we don't know any better. And you know information didn't come as it wasn't readily available, like it is now, like it has been the last 40 years. But you know, you thumb through the records at the record store and the cover looks cool and you're like this has to be cool and you buy it well, yeah, to give you an idea of how isolated things were then.
Speaker 2:I mean, back then we didn't have cable TV. Obviously there was no internet. We had three channels and a bunch of radio stations. So when I bought that record that was I. When I got that record I didn't buy another kiss record for probably nine, ten months because I didn't realize there were any others. And I remember riding around in the car with my brother and he had kq on, which is a local rock station here, and they played the live version of rock and roll all night and I was confused because I know that song but it sounds different but it sounds totally different and I couldn't have car solo in it yeah, I could, I couldn't.
Speaker 2:I couldn't grasp the concept yeah, yeah, I don't know how, how I figured it out, but then sooner or later someone at school or a friend or whatever they're like, oh yeah, that's the, they have a live record. And then I bought that and then it then it seems like after I got alive. Then from that point forward I realized that there were other records and that these bands put new music out, but it just, even though it's like I, I was buying 45s, I didn't realize there was new music, because I think up until that point I was kind of somewhat living in the past because I'm listening to Elvis and the Beatles and the Rolling Stones, and the Beatles broke up in 1970. Here I am in fourth grade and 74, 75 going well, okay, but they don't put more records out.
Speaker 1:But the whole thing was really confusing, yeah it's because we're just kids, yeah, but now for me, I think, if I, if memory serves me correctly, I think the next kiss album I bought I think it was love gun and and I got that right on release maybe not the day, but, you know, right around that, because I remember just wearing that cassette out that whole summer. But when I after that, when I had gone back in the catalog, because now it's like, okay, you know, kiss has these other records I think I had, I think I already had Destroyer as well too. But then I, I, I went and I picked up the debut album. I put the needle on that thing and I was like what's wrong with the stereo, what's wrong with the record? You know, because you know, you hear these songs, songs on kiss alive and there's so much more energy to them and and the, and, and, like I said, we're kids at the time so we don't understand production and what's what? What sounds good, what sounds crappy? I just know it's different.
Speaker 2:I'm like, wow, I don't like this stuff at all right, I was the same way, and except what's weird about it, I think, is that their recordings failed miserably over the test of time compared to say, like to me. I just did this thing with Hairball, where I asked all of the members what to you, in your opinion, is a perfect album, and my answer to that question would be elton john, goodbye yellow brick road. Okay, it's. To me it's a masterpiece on on many levels, and so when you look and you listen to 1973, goodbye yellow brick road. And then you listen to hotter than hell from 74, it's like were these even recorded in the same decade?
Speaker 1:that exactly. And well, and and look, there's a kid that lived down the street. He was like a year older than me and he had an older brother who had turned him on to led zeppelin. So this is why I hated led zeppelin for so long, because he was like oh, zeppelin's the best, kiss sucks, kiss is a kiddie band, blah, blah, blah, this kind of crap. And and I was like, hey, shut up, that's my band, you know. And come on, we, I'm sure you were just like me.
Speaker 1:We're almost getting fights over this kind of stuff constantly and so so, but you would listen to those Zeppelin records and they just sounded so different than anything that Kiss was putting out production wise and you know, eddie Kramer had a lot to do with that too, but he wasn't doing this, he didn't deliver the same thing for Kiss, and I don't understand the ins and outs and all that still to this day.
Speaker 2:But Well, the first three records he had nothing to do with. He did the demos, so they were hiring on the cheap. So the first two records were Kenny Kerner and Richie Wise and I'm convinced they didn't know what the hell they were doing.
Speaker 1:I don't think so either.
Speaker 2:The third record Dressed to Kill, that was Neil Bogart. Neil Bogart is the owner or the president of Casablanca Records. He produced the record because they were losing so much money that he decided to produce the record. And I would say, of the first three, dressed to Kill actually sounds the best of the three, I agree, I agree, but that's why they did it. And here's the funny thing for all of you people that don't know this. And here's the funny thing for all of you people that don't know this KISS is responsible for disco.
Speaker 1:Oh, come on, Tommy, oh, yes, yes, yes they are.
Speaker 2:I was hoping we were going to get into that.
Speaker 1:They certainly are.
Speaker 2:Think about it. Because Alive was so successful. Yes, a blank was on the verge of collapse, literally Because Neil Bogart was a brilliant, brilliant guy, but he was, and this came from his wife and his son. He'd spend two dollars to make one and neil was a big picture guy. So when a live hit and started, you know, multiple platinum, boom, boom, boom. All that money he took and he invested into donna summer, parliament and a lot of the other disco. I don't consider parliament, you know, but my point is he pushed things out so that people could hear different stuff. He, he that funded donna summer and so much of that to come. So if any of you out there are listening that hate disco, blame Paul and Jane.
Speaker 1:Kiss Bank rolled disco. Yes, they did, they did, they did. But this is how geeky we are. Yeah, there's, you know. Look, if a thousand people watch this episode, oh my God, it'd be the greatest thing since sliced bread. But 998 of them don't even know that, right? But how crazy is that? So don't hate on KISS so much. If you love disco, don't hate on KISS, because thanks to KISS, you got Donna Summer and you got the Village People and you got, like you said, you got Parliament and Funkadelic because of it, though they weren't disco, but you got them Right.
Speaker 2:They definitely had a groove that wasn't heavy metal. And that's the thing that's so interesting to me is because when you learn about it, music is just intertwined like this. You know there's so many different facets of it and the funny thing is is that you know, by admission, all of the guys in Kiss would probably tell you that they're huge Led Zeppelin fans, and I've never heard why you can't like both. Can't like both. But if you, if I listen to the music again, it goes back to the pizza argument. The songs that have held the test of time for me are more so in the kiss catalog than they ever would be in the led zeppelin catalog. And it doesn't mean that led zeppelin isn't a great band and that people should love them the way that they do. It's just. It doesn't hit me the way.
Speaker 1:It. Just it doesn't hit me the way the other stuff does, because that was at the, the beginning stages of our love for music and we latched onto KISS. Maybe it was the visual thing at first that caught our attention. It's like when you see a red car driving down the street, it doesn't matter what kind of car it is, you see red and you look, and I think that's the effect that KISS had on us as kids, and a lot of other people as well, and so it holds so much more of a special place in our hearts because of that. And I don't know where I was going with it and I don't know where I was going with it. Oh, but getting back to Led Zeppelin, yeah, look, I think that the music magazines Hip Parader, cream, circus I think that they are the ones that really kind of created this kiss versus led zeppelin thing.
Speaker 1:I really think it was them because I remember seeing stuff in the papers and they're always trying to compare the two bad, compare paul stanley to robert plant, you know. And and always comparing peter chris to john bonham, who's the better drummer, and this and that, and it was, it was. You know it was kind of silly. But then you get to the 80s and you get to the the Animal Eyes Asylum time of the band and Gene's playing Moby Dick. He's doing a Moby Dick solo. Paul's writing songs that are Zeppelin-esque on Asylum and they're showing more of the influence that Zeppelin had on them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and I'm sure that that's just how things change over time. I just never understood the hatred by some of the kids in my school for liking something that I like, and we all took crap like that and.
Speaker 2:I was never interested in an argument because I liked Led Zeppelin as well, but at the end of the day, like I said, it comes down to the songs and what hits you and what doesn't you know, and I think I would be remiss if I don't mention this as well. For those of you that are KISS fans, that are interested in hearing a different version of things, there's a guy Just look him up on YouTube Frankenstein. Are you looking at my notes Tommy.
Speaker 2:Well, and it was funny because I, I, uh, he redid it Ken is a I can't even explain Ken, yeah, nice guy, but he, he has this ability to mix songs. So I'll give you an example, and I'm probably going to get this wrong, and you should probably have them on your podcast to talk about this stuff, because it's fascinating.
Speaker 1:All you got to do is give me a contact and I'll try.
Speaker 2:I'm sure he'd love to come on, that's not a problem. So he took Come On and Love Me, which is a single off of Dressed to Kill, and he just redid it. And he redid the video as well, because there was a promo video for it in 75, and what he did is he takes actual drumming parts from peter chris off of like live versions of these songs and then he isolates the drum track and mixes it in to the song and he does it with actually all four members, so it's all of them actually playing all of their parts from probably five or six different versions of that song. Yeah, and he redoes the actual song. That's the record version. And I told him.
Speaker 2:I said to him the other night I'm like all these people are all excited about these off the sound and all and it, which is great, I'm all for it. Look, they're still releasing music 50 years into their career. This is amazing that they're doing this. Whether it's a live soundboard or not, whatever it might be, those don't interest me as much, but this stuff is like I I watched that.
Speaker 1:Come on and love me video Now. I. I watched that come on and love me video Now. Um, the only thing and maybe I was missing something, but the only things that I could tell that were different, obviously there were the the drum fills, Um, and then at the back end of the song, uh uh, where the uh Paul's keeps saying come on, come on you know. I don't know if that's all that was added to it, but that's what I picked up, at least right away.
Speaker 2:I listened to it several times. I was so immersed in it the other night and I can't speak to the video yet because I hadn't watched it in many years. But what I also picked up on that was all the stuff you mentioned plus the guitar sound, and then the bass was brought up a lot, so gene's bass was considerably more predominant, which made the song thicker. Now he did it to the whole hotter than hell album. Right, and I hate the hotter than hell album the way it sounds, but I love the songs.
Speaker 2:To your point earlier about how you're saying why is it sounds so great and bombastic and and open on a live, and then you go back and listen to the studio and you're like well, these don't even sound like the same song. So he started he's been working on a bunch of stuff but he did the whole hotter than hell record. If you haven't heard it, I highly recommend I need to listen to that. I haven't heard. It's literally night and day it. I like his version so much that I listen to it on a regular basis.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, because I mean I love the songs on hotter than hell. I think it. I think that hotter than hell is is every bit as good as the debut album, yeah, but but it just it. It kind of just plods along. It just it's like walking through mud.
Speaker 2:Yes, and heavier, which is cool, but it just, it's just well, imagine if they would have Mike Peter Chris's drums the way they would, they would Mike John Bonham. That record would sound completely different.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you know it. You. You brought it up with the come on and love me video, um, where gene's base is up in the mix. That's the thing with dress to kill. That I wanted to talk about a little bit. Yeah, neil bogart was he's. He's credited as a producer, although, although if you talk to Gene and Paul, they say they pretty much produced it, and Neil was that kind of there just saying, yeah, okay, that sounds good, but you know, and so who knows? But the production it sounds good, but the bass is so buried in the mix on every single song, every track, you can't. I mean.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm like doing this and I and I still can't hear the bass but see, that's why I think that he had a bigger role in it than than kiss is letting on, because if you look at the stuff that neil bogart likes, he loves bubblegum pop and so how do you make something sound more radio friendly and more bubble gummy? You take the base out of it, so it doesn't have a big low end to it and it's lighter the Archie's yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, gotcha, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you got a good point there. He was looking for a hit at that point, at that point. Yeah, and even peter's drums are, um, I mean it well, except for she, she. You really hear the drums um midway through the song. When he gets into that tribal beat, yep and, and I love that part of the song. But but aside from that, you know, peter's drums sound, yeah, they don't sound anything like John Bonham's, they just sound really, you know, kind of weak.
Speaker 2:Well, and that's the other thing I think a lot of people don't know or maybe aren't aware of is is the fact that Peter was. He was raised in a different generation, so he has a different style or technique to his drumming. That made me feel that kiss was not heavy metal, right, at least they weren't at the time. They were more just of a hard rock band. Now he wasn't as heavy of a hitter as, uh, john bonham, and I'm certainly not a drummer. So I'm the wrong person to have this discussion, but maybe we need to talk to mark. Yeah, you gotta talk to mark. He'll be able to bore you to death with all that and. But there I think he doesn't get the credit that he deserves, sometimes simply because of the way the records were mixed I completely agree with you on that.
Speaker 1:And, and as kids we didn't get it too. So so you know the drum solo of all drum solos, the end all be all is 100,000 years. Come on, okay. And Peter's always said he came from the big band swing background. His influences are Gene Krupa, buddy Rich, you know, and I was listening to 100,000 Years. I never really picked up on it. But I'm listening to 100,000 Years recently and it starts to get into the drum solo and I start listening to it and I'm going that is so swing that it just. I finally got it and I'm like, oh my gosh, I could see Buddy Rich sitting behind a kit playing what Peter is playing Well.
Speaker 2:And if you want to draw a parallel, then take a look at Jerry Nolan from the Dolls, because those two were really good friends and they both took lessons from Gene Krupa and I would say that they were both similar in their drumming styles as well. So if you listen to those Dolls records, there's a lot of stuff on there that either one of them could have switched positions in the bands and you wouldn't have known it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So yeah, peter doesn't get the credit that he deserves as a drummer, but when you take his background and then you bring it into a hard rock band, I mean he made it fit, he made it work, yeah, and it works brilliantly. You know, it really really does.
Speaker 1:Yeah he's amazing. Yeah, absolutely. And, like I said, we didn't understand it. When you're 12 years old, you're just listening to the songs, yeah, and playing air guitar. I said we didn't understand it. When you know, when you're 12 years old, you're just listening to the songs, playing air guitar and all that kind of stuff. But tell me, um, now that we've gone through a lot of our thoughts, I kind of wanted to go down the track list just a little bit. Like I don't know, do you have a favorite song on on, uh, on the album? Um?
Speaker 2:I would say there's two, okay, um yeah, you're not limited to one, yeah no, there's two that have always stood out to me, that I've always loved over, and above all the rest of them, that would be anything for my baby and lover, all I can, because they're so different than what they normally do.
Speaker 1:You know, I would say, for me favorite song might be come on and love me, cause it's just. It's just such a good song and it just I mean it just if you, if you are not stomping your feet to that song, and it just I mean it just. If you are not stomping your feet to that song and you're not shaking your hips, something's wrong with you. And it's just such a cool song. I dig the lyrics. I always dug them as a kid. You know one of the best lines she touched her hips and told me that she'd let me. You know, it's like when you're 12, you're like whoa, yeah exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but um, um, so I love that one and uh and you brought it up love her all I can. So much so. And I, I, I didn't appreciate the song until I met Catherine and when we were getting married. Unfortunately we didn't get to have our church wedding, but the song after we get announced and begin to exit the church was gonna be Lover All I Can, because the lyrics are so great. Oh yeah, they're just so, so great and it's just such a catchy tune as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just different. I don't know why, but there's just something special about those two songs. They really stuck out to me the first time I heard them and I like the whole record. The only thing I don't like is I don't like Rock and Roll All Night. I think it's such an awful version. Tommy, I could kiss you right now. Yeah, yeah, it's just like the Cheap Trick album version of I Want you to Want Me. Right right, right right. They were going for something different than what it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah yeah, but other than that I love the whole record.
Speaker 1:It's fun, I agree, yeah, it's. It really really is top to bottom. It's a great record, great songs. Worst song on the record rock and roll all night. Worst song. Worst song. Worst version of that song Um, you know she, uh, just a great song. Um, like I said, you know Peter's tribal drumming in that song is awesome. And again, going back to when you're a kid, you know, and the line she takes off her clothes, I had no idea it was about a prostitute.
Speaker 2:I had no idea at all. When you're a kid, you don't think that that's yeah, that's not in your wheelhouse, especially after you've been listening to. You know the monkeys yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:But but then you get to, um, uh, like rock bottom, I mean tremendous song, and come on that. That ace freely intro is absolutely tremendous. And the sad part is I don't know if it was edited out, but on the alive version, you know, we get that, that mini mini intro yeah, but I love the live version of that song.
Speaker 2:It just it. All those songs on a live from those first three records, in my opinion, come to life, and that's where the frustration is for a lot of the KISS fans that would love to hear live versions of those other songs. But then, in all fairness, some songs just don't work live, and I don't even mean from the aspect of that conversation I was telling you about with Tommy Thayer. It's just there's some songs that they translate really well on vinyl and you love them, but they don't necessarily work live and I don't know why that is, but they just don't.
Speaker 1:Right, right, you know, getaway, I mean speaking about Peter. You know, obviously he, obviously he's underrated as a drummer. He's a tremendous drummer and well, I guess I could say was because he's, you know, retired now, but but you know, tremendous drummer, um, but he never gets enough credit for his singing ability as well, and he always seemed to do a fabulous job when it was his turn.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know. Yeah, I just think that he my understanding of you is just such a malcontent.
Speaker 2:So difficult to work with yeah, that's going to be tough to you know all be in a boat and you're rowing towards shore and someone's drilling a hole in the bottom of the boat. Yeah, that's how it feels and that's why it ended up the way that it ended up. But we got that small slice. That was amazing, and that's usually what it is with most bands. Most bands don't make it like the Rolling Stones. You know where they're together for all the years that they've been together. It just doesn't work out, and sometimes the most production you're gonna get out of a band is six or seven years. And I think it's also okay to be a fan of a band and not own everything they have or have done. It doesn't make you any more or less of a fan. That's. Another problem with some of the KISS fans is that they're just so self-righteous that like, well, if you weren't there in 1974, you didn't buy the first album when it came out, the day it came out you're not a fan. It's like, well, chances are you didn't either.
Speaker 1:Exactly, yeah, yeah, you know, let me see. Last time I looked you're like two years younger than me, so I'm sure you weren't there standing in line buying it the day.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and we've always made that argument on our podcast that a casual fan is just as important as a mega fan, and a fan who became, you know, part of their music and everything was you know in the 80s or nineties is just as valid of a fan as someone who's been there since the seventies.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and I'm going to steal. I'm going to steal a line from from Mark. You know he says timeline is everything and and it it all depends on where you jump in this world or any band. But we're talking about kiss here because I mean, for crying out loud, they were around, they've been around for 50 years and and now some people, some people didn't come to kiss until the eighties. Maybe they didn't even. You know, they, they kind of knew who they were, didn't pay attention, but then there was this thing called MTV and so they saw the videos on MTVtv and that's where they, you know, got in on kiss. So, like the non-makeup era of kiss, that's their band and yeah, they might like stuff before that and they might like the stuff after that, but that's like their wheelhouse right and and and.
Speaker 2:Some people feel that ace fraley is their guitar player, other people think it's Bruce Kulik and other people think it's Tommy Thayer. Challenge myself that I could honestly say I bought their first record and were fans of the band since literally the first album, because especially back in the day before the internet it's weird, it's like before the internet it was hard to find new music unless your friends brought it over.
Speaker 2:You heard it on the radio yeah, or you were in the record store all the time, like now you think it would be getting easier, but it's harder because there's even more ability to find music online with all these streaming platforms and all of these different services where you can go to find new music, that it's almost harder to find it now because you're inundated with so much new stuff. It's like how do you figure out what you like and what you don't? And I'd say go back to going to festivals. That's the best thing you can do.
Speaker 2:If you like heavy metal, for instance, hard rock, whatever, yeah, go to a festival, a three-day festival, like maybe one of Danny Wemmer Presents festivals or whatever, and you will see so many bands there that if you didn't go, you would never know about and you might find something new that you're like holy shit, this is unbelievable. I mean, it's happened to me more times than I can count. I can give you a list of 20 bands right now at the top of my head that if it wasn't for the festivals, I would have never heard of. That. I absolutely love.
Speaker 1:I'm going to tell you right now. Now, look, as far as a festival is concerned, look, tommy, we're pushing 60 here. Okay, that's an endurance test, true, but I'll tell you about one band I absolutely knew nothing about until I saw them open for Kiss, and it was the Rock the Nation tour, which was one of the best set lists that Kiss has had, probably since the Hot in the Shade tour. And the band that opened that tour tour was z02. Yeah, and I knew nothing about z02 and I took my son with me and we're sitting, we're sitting there at irvine meadows and we're looking at joey's drum kit and on the kick drum he's, they got the z02 logo and it, you know, from a distance it's hard to read it, you know. And and what's the name of that band, dad, I don't know, but I'll tell you what. Those guys. They tore it up and loved them from the, from that minute, and they were selling their, their debut cd at the merch stand.
Speaker 1:I went out in between show, in between sets, and I bought it. I met the guys. They were fabulous, yeah, and uh, guys, oh, great guys, paul, paulie, actually, paulie was on the, paulie was on the show about a year ago. Okay, absolutely Dynamite, dynamite guy. In fact he I, I went at his birthday bash, like two weeks ago at the whiskey, and so he's just, he's just a great, great guy. And you know, it's unfortunate that ZO2 is kind of there.
Speaker 2:I guess hiatus is the best way to put it you know, because he was playing in the suite for a while and then he's been bouncing around and then Joey's doing stuff with different bands. So, yeah, I mean they'll probably do something in the future and they lost one of their members. But that's a great example. I mean, if you, if you didn't see them as an opener, you still may not know who they are to this day. Yeah, and I know that I agree with you the endurance piece, but at the same time, with these festivals, there are some that aren't quite as big as others, but you know, you can at least go and and hear something different.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, no, absolutely Okay. To to to to what you're saying, though, Okay, and I'll, I'll. I'll step back a little bit. I did. I was at a, I was at a festival, I don't know, two weeks ago, three weeks ago, uh, I went to boots in the park it's a country music festival, Nice and, um, I think I, I think I missed the first two acts because they started at 1215. So I think I got there like two, 30. Okay, but I still saw five of the seven bands which is awesome.
Speaker 1:And the only one that I knew was Brooks and Dunn, who closed the show. That's the only one I knew. The other four previous to them had no idea and I loved it. There you go. Do you remember who the other four were? I know one was Parker McCollum. Yeah, parker mccallum, he's very good. Yeah, he would. Oh, he was great. Yeah, he reminded me.
Speaker 2:He reminded me of a country version of brian adams yeah, yeah, most of those guys want to be rock people yeah, yeah, they really do who was the guy I can't remember, who was right in front of him, but then who?
Speaker 1:oh gosh, I just I can't. I can't recall, but was right in front of him, but then who?
Speaker 2:oh gosh, I just I can't I can't recall, but it was just, it was so good though, yeah, and I'm shooting a lot of country Western festivals, and so I'm learning so much more about country Western music, and there's some really great acts out there that I really, really enjoy, and you shouldn't be scared to try that too.
Speaker 1:When it's real country, when it's down home, good old boy country. You know guys that were working on the oil fields in Arkansas, you know six months ago and always wanted to be a musician. You know that kind of stuff, I love that type of stuff. You know heath sanders, austin moody, those kind of guys. I'm not into hip-hop with a twang, yeah, but that's different I'm.
Speaker 2:I'm kane brown. Uh, yeah, no, I don't even understand that. But but like co wetzel, jelly roll, jelly Roll, parker McCollum, john Party Pecos and the Rooftops Whiskey Myers, ashley McBride, there's a lot of really, really great artists. Then, of course, the greatest country artist of all time ever in the history of country music, wheeler walker jr okay you've heard of him not familiar with the music.
Speaker 2:Do you know who steel panther is? Yeah, okay, he's a country western version of steel panther gotcha. He's freaking awesome people. He is wonderful. Okay, yeah, he'll never be on any big festivals because you couldn't have anyone under the age of 18 there, he's awesome.
Speaker 1:Is he standing on stage with a blow dryer doing his hair and all that kind of stuff too?
Speaker 2:No, he's not doing that, okay, but he's thinking about how he wants to have sex with every person in your family, including your father.
Speaker 1:I was going to say, and your mom too, yeah, your mom and grandma.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, he's a depraved deviant.
Speaker 1:Oh geez, that's why he's your favorite.
Speaker 2:Exactly, he's like come on Because he's like Steel Panther in the respect that you go to the show and it's a comedy routine more than anything else and you laugh through the whole thing.
Speaker 1:I thought you were going to give me something like totally serious, like Ronnie Millsap or something.
Speaker 2:No, I am totally serious, or straight no, I am totally serious, I think he's, I thought you were going to oh come on. I mean, I like those guys too. I have a variety of those. That's great to see. I just bought an Alabama record and I bought Great stuff Miranda Lambert and I bought Shania Twain. I bought all this stuff here just over the last month or so, but Wheeler Walker is just he's next level.
Speaker 1:Since you're on depravity and all that stuff, right? You know I was while I was waiting for you to come in in the studio. I was just scrolling through Facebook and I saw some of your posts and the what's on your turntable stuff. Tommy, I had to take a screenshot, I don't know. Let me see if I can do this.
Speaker 2:That's become really popular, and I'm not really sure why.
Speaker 1:Well, oh wait, hang on, Let me get to my photos here. I took a screenshot. I don't. I was like are you got? You got to be kidding me? This is where to go? Uh, no, that's not Tommy. Where's Tommy? Uh, I can't uh screw it, can't find it right now, but I couldn't believe that you were being sponsored by, like, sex coaches and all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 2:I didn't I, I'm not even aware of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was like what? Yeah, I didn't think you were aware of it, but it was just kind of funny that-.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I mean, hey, everybody needs help, I guess.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I guess.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't even pay attention to any of that because I don't monetize my feed. I do all of that stuff to give you value, to pay attention because I'm for those of you that don't know I'm a real estate agent by trade and so nobody needs a real estate agent unless you're buying or selling a home. I totally get it. You know, it's no different than anything else. When you need it, it's there for you. But how do I keep people engaged so that when they do need help buying or selling or hear of someone, they'll think of me? Well, that's why I do these things, that's why I do these podcasts, that's why I make the what's on your turntable and we do a lot of really stupid, goofy shit.
Speaker 2:Like my friend Kyle and I, we went to record store day in Minneapolis, where I live, and so Kyle and I hit like nine or 10 record stores on record store day and we just would go in and go hey, this is South Metro. If you're on the South side of town down in Burnsville, lakeville area in Minneapolis, st Paul, this is a great place to go buy records. They have a great use section or whatever. And then we went to all these. We made like one minute videos and like within 24 hours we had 80,000 views. Just like going to the record store and I got all these messages from people going dude. That was so much fun.
Speaker 1:We followed you all day you gotta show me how to get that stuff done it's easy, I can show you it's.
Speaker 2:But my point is it's like who would have ever thought? But people are interested because I'm entertained, we're entertaining them, and they're only a minute long. And and also, too, a lot of people are like well great, when I come to Minneapolis now I know where to shop because I'm so into the music thing, just like you are. Most of our friends, or so many of our colleagues and friends, are somehow attached to music in one one way or another.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, speaking of doing other things, why don't you tell us some of the things you have going on? You've mentioned podcasts. Let's talk about them. What?
Speaker 2:do you got going on? Where do you want to start?
Speaker 1:Well, let's start with your two new ventures in the podcast world.
Speaker 2:Okay, I have two new podcasts. The first one is called Hairball Inscripted. For those of you that don't know who Hairball is, they are a band out of Minneapolis, michael, the lead guitar player. We've been friends since we were 16. And Hairball is essentially a it's not not a cover band, although that's what people call it. They go to the extreme because mike's a kiss fan and loves van halen all the stuff we love. So essentially they play all hair metal songs and it's usually two, maybe three songs max from a band.
Speaker 2:So like, if they do twisted sister dave, one of the three singers will come out dressed up like Dee Snider and they'll do a couple of songs and he'll leave. And then, you know, chris will come out dressed as Freddie Mercury and they'll do Queen songs, and you know, and they just kind of keep revolving. And now they've got Patrick. So Patrick will then come out and do Guns N' Roses and they're so good musicianship-wise and they nail this stuff. It's freaking perfect. And so it's an inexpensive ticket it's not going to cost you $300 to go see them and the idea behind it is oh, you don't like Journey, wait five minutes, and here's Judas Priest. Oh, you don't like Judas Priest, wait five minutes and here's Kiss, and they're always constantly switching things up. So they have a huge fan base and they're selling more tickets than National X. So I would say on average they sell four to 5,000 tickets per show. Yes, but they're only like 35. So people get two hours of all the best songs from that genre.
Speaker 2:Yeah, pyro and lighting and smoke, and the whole nine yards. Uh, even dave moody that does gene, he breathes fire. So I mean, yes, I've seen that. Yeah, and so I can't encourage you enough that if you guys ever get an opportunity, if you like 80s hair metal, look up Hairball. They will probably come to a city near you.
Speaker 2:So we started one a couple of weeks ago because we've been talking about it for a long time called Hairball Unscripted, and we're doing exactly what you and I are doing here, and each week or every other week we have a couple of different band members and we just talk about different things and then we answer fan questions and so far I mean we've only done two episodes, but it's off to a really good start and people seem to really enjoy it. And then the other one is a new one that hasn't debuted yet and it's called the Hometown Hustle, and I'm going to be interviewing people from the Minneapolis-St Paul area who own businesses, not only to hear their stories because I think that people's stories are interesting, regardless of whether you're famous or not and then talk a little bit about their business to help people know that. Okay, here's someone who's genuinely the real deal and if you go to this person, you're going to have a good experience. They're not going to overcharge you, they're going to take good care of you and that's essentially what it is.
Speaker 1:So I don't know what's going to happen with that yet We'll see, right, on, right on, and then, of course, you've got the biggest KISS podcast in the entire world. Three sides of the coin.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but that's a big fish in a really small pond, you know I mean there's like a million Kiss.
Speaker 1:Okay, there's not a million, there's about a hundred Kiss podcasts. Is there that?
Speaker 2:many Because I haven't listened to any of them. I mean, I really truly don't. It's something we get together two weeks, two hours per week, and we record this thing and then I don't think about it again the rest of the week. It's just, it's. It's no different than anything else you do in your life and it's been really rewarding.
Speaker 2:And the thing that blows my mind the most about it is how many musicians listen, because I can't tell you how many times I've been at a festival and I'm down in the pit photographing a band and one of the guys keeps looking at me and he's got this weird look on his face. And then, about halfway through, he looks at me. He's just like, like rant, you know Randy Wetzel from in this moment. He's a guitar player in this moment, super nice guy, great band in this moment, excellent. And he kept looking at me. He'd walk away and he'd look at me and he'd walk away. And then finally he comes over and he's like he pulls his sleeve up and he's got this massive Gene Simmons tattoo and he's like, and I'm like, yes, yes, and that stuff happens all the time and I'm just blown away by it.
Speaker 1:Just for the people in my audience, I'm going to tell you guys, check out three sides of the coin. Check out all of Tommy's podcasts, especially if you're in the market for a home. But not only that. Check out three sides of the coin. They have like 600 episodes and I mean you guys have been, I think, like 11 years, something like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 12 years, 11, 12 years now.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We're at like 808, 850 million minutes listener. I don't know Some insane it is.
Speaker 1:It's crazy, but but. But what I was getting to is the guests that these guys have on their show. These guys, man, they pull out all the stops. They've got. It's incredible, the guests that they have, and it's not just the, it's not the people that everybody knows Okay, it's not, it's not only them. You get a lot of the behind the scenes folks as well, and sometimes that's when you get the best stories and the best.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely that's that's why people are you got to have the band on. Well, we've had band members on and there's nothing wrong with that, it's wonderful, and we, we love that they participate. But they, but they're not going to tell us anything that we don't already know, I mean, unless we're lucky and something comes out in that interview. But it's the other people, it's the people around the band and the people behind stage and, to your point, and other musicians who are fans of the band, that I think have a tendency to be considerably more interesting, although I do find it interesting that the band is hyper aware of it. You know, because Paul Stanley listens on a regular basis, because I can tell you, there's been more than one time where I'm backstage and he pulls me to the side and lectures me for about five, 10 minutes. He gives you the business, yeah, and he's always nice.
Speaker 2:I mean, all of them are very, regardless of what you hear, I'm going to tell you when you get behind the veneer, all of those guys are really kind people. You know, they really they are. They're truly kind, wonderful people and they do a lot of charitable stuff and a lot of amazing things that they just never talk about, right? So, for all that vibrato with Jean, he's a teddy bear, he is. I could make him cry If you put me in front of him right now. I could make him cry by asking him one specific question, and he done it to him before. Yeah, you know, and and they're, they're just, they're wonderful people as well as know ace fraley as well, ace is just, he's just a super nice person.
Speaker 1:You know, they're just great people yeah, absolutely, and and again, again people in my audience, the guys from three sides they're. They're like buddies with everybody in the music business. Okay, they're best buddies with everybody in the band Kiss. Well, the most recent lineup of the band, plus all the past members of the band too, and some of them have been on the show, some of them haven't, most of them haven't let's put it that way Other than Peter. Peter hates us.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, which is sad because we love Peter. Exactly. The problem with Peter to a certain degree, and even Ace to a lesser degree, is there's a group of sycophants that like. I'll give you a great example One of the records that Ace had released a number of years ago and I don't remember if it was anomaly or whatever we did a review of it on the show and I think I gave it like an eight out of ten or maybe even a nine out of ten, and mark was very similar and michael gave it like a six out of ten. I think that was anomaly. Yeah, okay, and we just got this hate mail from these people who are like no, you have to give it a 10 out of 10. It's your responsibility to help them sell as many records. I'm like no, that has nothing to do with that, has not? That's not what we do, that's not you know.
Speaker 1:It's your responsibility to give your true opinion and your true review. That is your responsibility. It's not your response. You talked about it earlier. As fans, we don't have to like every single thing that our favorite bands do we? Don't have to, and it's okay to not like every single thing that they do. Look, you even brought it up too the band doesn't like everything that they've done as well. So if they don't like everything, then why is it not okay for you to not like everything?
Speaker 2:Well, and I think that that's where where it goes so well for us, because they they respect us, because we always tell the truth. They may not agree with everything that we say, but we'll never lie to you. We will always tell you the truth and it's just our truth. You know, either we like something or we don't, so they don't have a problem with that. There's so many people who think we shill for them and that they pay us and all that, oh yeah, oh yeah, wait a minute.
Speaker 2:There's no truth to it and, like I said, if they didn't like us, they wouldn't be nice to us.
Speaker 1:So wait a second, you're not collecting checks from.
Speaker 2:Paul and Gene. Come on.
Speaker 1:I thought that's what's been going on this whole time.
Speaker 2:I'm surprised Gene doesn't charge us.
Speaker 1:Charge you to mention his name or something like that. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And they respect honesty. Yeah, and they respect honesty. Yeah, because I think at first they were a little concerned when we first started, thinking that it was going to be a TMZ thing, which was never our intention, and in my 12 years of doing this, I can't think of one guest we ever had on, not one that was ever showed malice towards the band. We don't want dirt, we don't want ex-girlfriends or ex-wives, we want to talk and celebrate the band and the music and the because the funny thing is is that the three sides thing is less a kiss podcast, in my opinion, and more about us growing up in the 70s and 80s. It's more of a that to me than it is actually, because we talk about other other stuff, as you know as well other bands, music and all that, but but it all comes right back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you know, it's like all roads lead to kiss yeah, we have so many friends that that that's exactly what it is, and we talk about that and it's like, you know, like michael from hairball, we're like well, you know, pretty much almost every answer to life is contained between the debut album and creatures, and if you can't get answers to whatever your problems are in those that group of records, you just don't get it. You know, because there's so much that can be learned from what they did and it's all just fun, that's all it is. And and we've been very blessed and, like I said, I can't I can't even express to you how kind they have been to us and they don't get anything. They don't. We're just normal, regular people, that's all it is, you know.
Speaker 1:Well, it you know, um, like you were saying, it's you're not always just talking about the music very similar to you know what I'm doing here. We talked about it um previously. It's just telling stories and of course, they're all KISS-based stories.
Speaker 1:Most of them are KISS-based stories you know, but it's just telling stories, and I've said it a lot of times and I'll continue to say it as long as I do this podcast people like to hear stories. Yeah, absolutely, and so I try to share as long as I do this podcast people like to hear stories?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and so I try to share as much as I can. But I'm careful to share certain things, because then I start getting attacked for bragging about something when in reality that's not what I'm doing. I'm just trying to take the audience along with me on some of these experiences. You know, I remember and I'll tell everybody this I was sitting backstage. God knows who knows where it was, maybe Louisville, kentucky, it doesn't matter but I was sitting on a road case with Dr Mark and we're just sitting backstage which we do all the time and they go walking past and I look at Mark, I'm like where the hell are they going? The stage is the other way. And sure as shit, three minutes later here they come walking back again because someone took them the wrong way. So people were passing by. I'm like hello Cleveland. And he's like, yeah, well, that shit actually happens, you know, and I'd like to just share it because it's it's one of those things that most people don't ever get to do no, they.
Speaker 1:They don't get to see that. You bragger, tommy, but um yeah, you know uh it's bizarre.
Speaker 2:I mean, we used to go out on tour and mark and I were the only two back there.
Speaker 1:literally I admire you guys for what you have been able to do and just the friendships that you've been able to create within that KISS family and, of course, it's gone way beyond that as well. Oh gosh.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, I'm flying down to Atlanta next week to celebrate a 60th birthday of a friend of mine, him and his wife, and her his wife is throwing this party, and it was because I met them the same way I met you. We're friends because they're KISS fans. That's where I am going.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, again, for my audience, I'll, I'll share this. I I mentioned it briefly and then, and then you've been so generous with your time, tommy, I'm going to let you go, but, um, we did meet at the KISS show, uh, in Las Vegas, um, uh, when KISS was doing their residency in 2014. And I bought tickets to go to the show there. I flew there by myself, and you and Michael were doing a kind of a three sides meet and greet type of thing, or a hang at Kiss Monster Mini Golf, right across the street from the hotel. Yep, christine and I went over and, just well, I met you and Michael the night before walking out of the theater, walking out of the whatever they called the theater at the time. I think it was the joint, wasn't it? I think so.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was the old. It's the old hard rock.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's when I had met you guys and you're like hey, you're going to come tomorrow. Yeah, I'm going to see you guys tomorrow, okay, great. So we hung out. You had your video camera out there, you were talking to the fans of the podcast and doing all kinds of stuff, and Izzy was there and I mean I still have a whole slew of photos that we took together. And then afterwards and I always tell you I use this line a lot with you, tommy I say I don't want to be that guy, but you're not that guy. When everything was done and over with, yeah, but you'd only known me for a few hours at that point.
Speaker 2:You can tell.
Speaker 1:And when everything was done and over with, you were like, hey, we're going to go inside and play some putt-putt golf. You, we're going to go inside and play some putt-putt golf. You want to come? I'm like, okay, sure, and it was you and Michael and Izzy and myself who played putt-putt golf inside Monster Mini Golf. We just had a great time. I remember that For my audience. Look, that's the kind of guy that Tommy Summers is. That's just the kind of guy that he is. He's very generous, generous and he's very genuine as well.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you. That's very kind of you to say, and I would say the same thing about you. And it was great, because it's like that's the other piece that I think a lot of people don't understand is it's hard to quantify certain things and I've seen some really weird shit happen at these festivals and backstage and when you meet people who are genuinely kind, people like you, you're immediately comfortable. You felt like an old friend right away because you handled yourself with grace and you were just kind and fun to be around. And I'm like well, you know, and we knew you were alone. So I'm like well, let's have Ben play golf with us. It was fun. We had a great afternoon. It was a lot of fun. We had a lot of laughs.
Speaker 1:Just like we'd known each other for years, we were cracking up that whole time and we were trying to take pictures inside the joint and all you could see was our teeth, because it was all the fluorescent lighting in there or the, you know, the neon lighting in there, and, and every time, every picture is just nothing but teeth in there. And it was, it was, it was, it was a good time. I still have the.
Speaker 2:I still have the scorecard from from that was fun. And and also to a monster mini golf in Vegas is in the Rio and Patrick run it and they're just the salt of the earth. So if you are even a curious KISS fan, not only is there a shitload of memorabilia there, but it's a lot of fun to play the Monster Golf. It's an 18-hole Monster Golf in neon. It's just a lot of fun. Go visit them if you can. You won't regret it.
Speaker 1:It's a great time, and if anybody's getting married, I do, are they. Is Gene Simmons still marrying people there?
Speaker 2:Probably. Yeah, I would think so. Um, I know the chapel still exists and I'm sure they use it. I just haven't seen any photos lately, but that doesn't mean that it's not happening. I haven't.
Speaker 1:I haven't either, but but yeah, it's, uh, yeah, good, good stuff and but yeah, it's good stuff. And look, I said it before, I'll always say it Tommy is just a wonderful guy. He really truly is. Unfortunately, he's three hours this way and we don't get to see. This is the first time we've seen each Gosh. I think this is the first time we've actually seen each other since the Kiss Expo in LA.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say that's probably the last time I physically saw you. Yeah, and that was 2018, maybe 17,. Okay, yeah, yeah, that was a fun-. That's bananas, tommy, I know, but that's how fast life goes. But we speak on the phone, we do.
Speaker 1:we talk on the phone, we text. You know I try to always remember your birthday when I can.
Speaker 2:And I'm horrible with that. So that's why I'll just say happy Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, there you go. I remember you know listen um all right Socials. Where can people find you besides your podcasts?
Speaker 2:Oh, you can find me on. Mostly I spend most of my time on Instagram and Facebook, tommy Summers, s-o-m-m-e-r-s. Please follow me. I would love it and check in and I'd love to chat with you. And, as far as the real estate stuff goes, I do a lot of blogging. So for any of you that maybe are in California or wherever you are in the world, especially in this country, at least In this country if you're ever stuck and you need we have questions, just look up my YouTube page Realtor, tom Summers, realtor, and there's a ton of stuff there content for you for free that will help you. They'll answer quick questions. And then I also offer a service to people that if you, let's say, you're in West Virginia and you don't have a real estate agent but you need one and you want to buy or sell a house, I will do the research for you free of charge and help you find an agent. So what?
Speaker 2:I'm telling you people that you don't end up getting and don't get me wrong, we've got a lot of wonderful people in my business, but there's a lot of people that are not very good. It's that old 80 20 rule and right, I just think. I think, when you're you're dealing with the largest asset most people have in their lives, you can't you can't hire someone who is nonchalant about it. You have to hire people who really care to take care of you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so and and last thing, tommy is like a master photographer and and if you, if you follow Tommy on Facebook or Instagram, he's constantly taking photos at shows and and it you know it'll take them a few days after the show to go through them and edit and that type of thing. But man, the stuff that he's putting out, look people, it's just it's top notch.
Speaker 2:That's very nice of you to say, and it's a work in progress. I'm getting better. I was really shitty when I first started. I was really bad, but thanks to people like Kiss and Hairball and these other bands who let me come and photograph because that's being a photographer at festivals and going on tour and shooting all those Kiss shows and that really that taught me so much. And also, too, I can't I can't do it without saying a huge thank you to my friend, kyle Hansansen. Kyle is a brilliant photographer, so look up rkh images. Kyle's amazing too. He really is. He's taught me oh so much. And now we teach each other stuff.
Speaker 1:He's the one that I do all this stupid shit with yeah, insurers and things like that yeah, yeah, and he still, and he still thinks that this, the track listing on the back of Love Gun, is a male appendage. No, that's Will. Oh, that's Will. Okay. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2:That's one of my biggest regrets in my life is that I took him backstage to meet them and that wasn't the regret. The regret was he got into it with Gene and they had like a five-minute conversation and he was arguing with Gene that the way the songs are on the back of the love gun album looks like a dick. Yeah, and he, he made some and had him cut out in the shape of it. He's like showing him the gene and jane's like no, I don't think. And he was like take pictures and I did. But what I realized after the whole thing was that it was it was comedy gold and I missed all of it. I should have been videotaping it. Yeah, exactly, because even after the whole thing he walks away and Paul heard the whole thing and Paul's like did you bring him here? Like I sure did. And I said specifically to talk to Gene about this. He's like that's funny. Yeah, because anytime he can get a dig in, he's all for it.
Speaker 1:Well, look, we were. You know, this album right here turned 50 the other day and we were talking about it and we spent more time talking about everything else, but it's still a great album. We still love it and we did get in our stuff regarding Dressed to Kill. So it's in there somewhere, people. But there was a lot of good conversation here that I hope you stick around from beginning to end. And, tommy, I just honestly I know you're a very, very busy guy, so for you to be able to carve out I think we're coming up on 145 right now so for you to be able to carve out I don't know, I think we're coming up on 145 right now so for you to be able to carve out this amount of time for me, I so appreciate it. I cannot say thank you enough.
Speaker 2:I'm happy to do it. I told you. Anytime you need me, I'm always here to help you, if I can.
Speaker 1:Well, you're gonna be without some co-hosts in a week or two, so if you need somebody to you know, fill a chair.
Speaker 2:What's going on in a couple of weeks? Are they both going somewhere, mark's?
Speaker 1:out of town, michael's out of town, lisa's out of town.
Speaker 2:Oh, so we can actually make a good one, we can make a good episode with them.
Speaker 1:Exactly, exactly. Come on, remind me.
Speaker 2:That would be fun. We could do that, yeah. Maybe get Izzy Presley on too.
Speaker 1:Oh, izzy probably wouldn't even remember me, but whatever, I don't care it doesn't matter, he's self-deprecating.
Speaker 2:You just put a quarter in him and let him go. Yeah, he's great. Yeah, I've never met anybody that could go into D. He should write a book about how to be in the friend zone with every woman he meets. Oh geez.
Speaker 1:Well, when you make videotapes of eating steaks in a restaurant and potatoes, you know, come on.
Speaker 2:Andy Andy Biersack of Blackfield brides. He's like I watch every episode. He's like it's so disturbing I can't look away. Yep, that's our Izzy. Yeah, because, izzy Presley, I Z Z Y Presley, I was in, you know, elvis ZZY Presley, as in Elvis, he's really freaking funny. He is self-deprecating and check him out on socials.
Speaker 1:And he does like. I mean he's like on every Monsters of Rock cruise and all these other events and stuff, and he does karaoke, dj, he does some stand-up, I believe, and he's I mean yeah he's a funny guy.
Speaker 2:Check him out. He's a good dude and he's really funny.
Speaker 1:He's and and very, very knowledgeable, very much so.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, it doesn't come off that way but he is, that's his, that's his kind of his. I think that's his thing yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but anyways, again, tommy, this is, this has actually been a blast. It really truly is. And it's kind of like when we get on the phone and we talk we will go for an hour, hour and a half, and so this is even better because everybody gets to see it too.
Speaker 2:So yeah, well, hopefully people enjoy it. That's all I can say.
Speaker 1:Well, I certainly hope so. I'm going to close up shop, but hang out with me. Okay, hang out with me for a couple minutes, all right? So, everybody, that's a wrap. Again, as you know, this program is available wherever you get your podcast. Just search the Ben Maynard Program. It's right there, Bam, go with it. If you've enjoyed this because of this guy right here, and not so much this guy here, then, yeah, I know what's happening. Then, thanks for watching on YouTube, but you have to subscribe to the channel. Okay, please subscribe to the channel, give me a thumbs up and leave a comment, all right. Last but not least, follow me on Instagram. And even better than following me on Instagram, which is Ben Maynard Program, you know what Follow me on Facebook instead, because I spend more time on Facebook. I don't even go. Catherine runs Instagram and whatever, so it's easier on Facebook. So hit me up on Facebook, okay. So there you go, all right. Thanks for tuning in. Thanks for being here. As always, this is the Ben Maynard Program. Tell a friend.