The Ben Maynard Program

EP.122 From Streets To SWAT - What Makes A Good Cop In A Hard World

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A directionless teen takes a wild turn into purpose, discipline, and service—then ends up racing across Morocco on TV. That’s Jim Vaglica’s path: 32 years in law enforcement, 16 on a regional SWAT team, and a front-row role in the Boston Marathon bombing manhunt. We open the door on what policing really feels like from the inside: the adrenaline of a real catch, the judgment calls on domestic calls where an arrest might do more harm than good, and the internal frictions that wear on even the most committed officers. Jim’s candor strips away the mythology without draining the honor from the work.

We dig into SWAT the way it should be understood: not trigger-happy tactics, but disciplined entries, patient containment, and relentless training designed to end danger with the least harm possible. Jim walks us through the week of the bombing, holding the inner perimeter around the Watertown boat, and the logic behind decisions that look simple from a couch but feel very different when a suspect might be wired to explode. If you’ve ever wanted to understand how elite teams think under pressure, this is the lens.

Then we pivot to the unexpected: reality TV. A dusty Survivor audition led to Expedition Impossible, a Mark Burnett endurance race across mountains and desert, where three Boston cops pushed through 18 days of back-to-back stages. Jim explains how casting really works, why “hooks” matter, and why fame is a long shot even for the most telegenic competitors. Finally, we talk staying strong after 60. Jim’s formula is blunt and effective: build and keep muscle through resistance work, sprint to stay capable under stress, and finish with sled pushes and pulls to light up lungs and legs. Forget endless treadmill time—short, hard efforts win.

If you care about public safety, human performance, and what real courage looks like away from headlines, you’ll find plenty to chew on. And if you’re a steady, service-minded person considering a badge, take Jim’s challenge seriously: departments across the country need you. Enjoy the conversation, then subscribe, share with a friend who loves true policing insights and high-impact fitness, and leave a review to help others find the show.

Thanks for listening! Follow me on Instagram: benmaynardprogram 
and subscribe to my YouTube channel: THE BEN MAYNARD PROGRAM
I also welcome your comments. email: pl8blocker@aol.com

Welcome And Housekeeping

SPEAKER_01

Hey everyone, welcome into the Ben Maynard program. Thanks for being here. As you can see, I'm once again out of my studio. It's uh it's a chilly 44 degrees here, but uh it's okay. Still have my house guest, and uh not a big deal. We're gonna get into it, we're gonna have some fun. Uh, I've got a really neat guest that I'm gonna introduce to you in a minute. Uh, but before we do that, let me remind you that this program is available wherever you get your podcasts. Just search the Ben Maynard program. Boom, it's right there. Go with it, download it, share it with all your people, uh, and give me a five-star rating because you guys know that I deserve it. However, if uh you can't resist this right here and you're watching on YouTube, then thank you for doing that. But do me a favor, subscribe to the channel, hit the notification bell, give me a thumbs up, yep, give me one of those, and leave a comment. You guys know I reply to all your comments. Last but not least, follow me on Instagram, simply Ben Maynard program, all one word, or where I'm a little more active on the TikTok. That's at the Ben Maynard Program. So there are plenty of ways to take in this show for your dancing and listening pleasure. Um, with that, I want to introduce to you guys retired police sergeant after a 32-year career in law enforcement, of which 16 of those were a part of an elite SWAT group. Uh, he's also been uh part of two reality shows. I want to get into that one, that's fun. And uh so without further ado, let me introduce to you Jim Vaglika. And there he is. How are you doing, Jim? Hey Ben. So thanks for doing this. Thanks for being here. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I'm glad you uh invited me. Let's uh let's talk. Let's have some fun, man.

From Aimless Teen To Academy

SPEAKER_01

Yes, let's do it. So, all right. 16, I mean uh 32 years in law enforcement. Um, as as kids, every you know, every young boy dreams of being a cowboy, dreams of being a firefighter, doctor, police officer, that kind of thing. What was um kind of what was your inspiration for wanting to for wanting to go into law enforcement?

SPEAKER_05

Um my situation was was probably different than most. Um I I just was going nowhere. I had no I had no direction, I had no guidance. Um my parents owned uh their own business, so they were always working.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

And I was running the streets um at a young age. Uh I graduated high school with no plan, um, like a part-time job delivering TVs. And um and and I was really going nowhere. And then my friends who who I grew up with um from the neighborhood, they started getting into trouble, like real trouble. Um and and and I just I said, all right, I gotta do something. I can't I can't follow my friends to prison, right? So um uh another buddy of mine convinced me, just he he was going to this community college, and he said, just just sign up and go. It's it's easy, right? So um after like after um that first semester of doing nothing, I I um I signed up and and I went and uh they looked at my grades and and and they said, you know, uh we're gonna take it really easy on you. Um so I got through that first semester, and then they said, well, you need to pick a major. And and I looked at their majors, they weren't offering much, right? And then and so like liberal arts was a was a choice, and and I I just felt like liberal arts was like lame, like you couldn't you couldn't make a choice, so then you just chose liberal arts. I wasn't gonna do that. And and there was one major that they offered was law enforcement, and I said, All right, at least that sounds like it might be interesting, and I I declared my major was law enforcement, like out of the blue, like with nothing else to do. Okay, and um, and I found that the classes were interesting, and um and they just went from there. Yeah, so in Massachusetts, all right. So in Massachusetts, if you want to be a cop, you take the civil service exam. Okay, statewide exam. And so the first chance I got, I signed up for it. And then I sent this card back in the mail saying you scored a 99. And I was like, Well, it must have been an easy exam, right? So I'm like, Well, there's gotta be like a thousand people that scored a hundred on this thing. I I probably have no chance, yeah. And the next thing I know, my the department where where I lived at the time was Waltham, Massachusetts. And they're like, hey, if you want this job, uh, you know, come in and sign the list if you if you want this job. And and I just it it just went from there. And before I knew it, I was in the police academy. Uh just three years old.

SPEAKER_01

I'm sorry, how old were you at the time?

SPEAKER_05

I I just turned 23.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_05

Well, I mean, I was still immature, my brain hadn't formed yet. Um, but I made it through the academy and and uh and I worked out.

SPEAKER_01

So um you mentioned not wanting to follow your friends to prison. Did did some of your friends that you grew up with actually go to prison?

SPEAKER_05

Yes, yes. Um drug dealing, um violence. Um, so so one of my good buddies, right, he got shot by a Waltham cop. Okay. And then that cop was my first partner.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

All right. I don't know if they if the department did that on purpose or what, but that's how it worked out.

First Arrests And Early Lessons

SPEAKER_01

So what kind of um like like growing up, what kind of what kind of trouble, I mean, what kind of trouble are you guys getting into? Because okay, listen, uh I I know I I'm still I'm still buddies with the guys that I grew up with. I mean, we've been friends for over 50 years. And um I know when we were growing up, the stuff that we did, you know, we were going out and and throwing oranges at cars as they would pass by, or or you know, we would we would make we would stuff clothes with dump with uh um uh a newspaper and make dummies and throw them out in the street when people would drive by so they think they hit you know a person or that stuff like that. You know, we go get a purse and tie fishing string to it and throw it out in the street, and when people stop to pick it up, we pull the fishing string, stuff like that. I mean, we weren't out there knocking over old ladies for their social security checks or anything like that.

SPEAKER_05

No, we so we did all that stupid stuff, but then they they graduated, right?

SPEAKER_01

I don't know, do you actually call it a graduation?

SPEAKER_05

Well, I just did. Uh I don't know, they graduated to a to a higher level. Yeah, I I wasn't about to do that. I mean, I was I was out I was out with with my friends, like at some point those neighborhood guys, I I outgrew them or whatever, and I had some new friends, and we would still get in trouble, but um nothing big. Um yeah, I never I never robbed anybody or anything. Uh but anyway, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I do all that stuff.

SPEAKER_01

I hear you. I hear you. Um so uh okay, so you get hired on uh uh Waltham, right? Waltham. Yeah, okay. So you get hired on at 23. You're going into the academy and all that. What kind of I mean, how's that experience for you?

Best And Worst Of Police Work

SPEAKER_05

Uh it was it was different, definitely. Um, I I saw it as a challenge. I kind of I I see a lot of my life as a challenge, and I and and I'm always looking for my next challenge, okay. Um, which helped me along the way because you know I I wanted to step up, step up, step up. Um, at the time my academy was uh I think it was 13 weeks, right? So just just over three months. And now the academy was over six months. So um it was it was kind of a basic, just a basic uh police academy. We we we went on runs, we uh learned to march, and uh and you know, uh defensive driving was a blast, and and uh shooting, you know. I I'd never shot a gun before I went to the academy, which turned out to be good because I didn't develop any bad habits before they could teach me the right way. Yeah, you know, um yeah, it went by pretty quick, and before I knew it, I was on the street.

SPEAKER_01

Was was it kind of a just um a shock? Because, you know, uh you know, police training is is uh rather militaristic. And for a kid who's you know out used to running the streets and and being on your own and doing doing that kind of stuff, getting into mischief, that type of thing, was it was it kind of a shock?

SPEAKER_05

Um I knew what I had to do. And and and I was young, and I wasn't going to try and buck the system. I knew that if if I was gonna screw off and and you know talk back to the instructors and whatnot, uh, I wasn't gonna make it through. And that's the only thing I had. That's the only thing I had in my life. If I didn't have that, if I got thrown out of the academy, I'd I'd be nowhere. I'd be nowhere.

SPEAKER_01

So I did what I had to. It sounds like basically that that was your opportunity to finally grow up, and that was it. Yeah, one one way to go. That's great. That's great. So um, do you remember the very first arrest that you made?

SPEAKER_05

Someone else asked me that question. I believe it was just some chicken um trespassing arrest. And it was it was uh an overnight shift, and we rode two man cars, so you know, I'm I'm the new guy in a car, I just do what I'm told.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Uh and and we were checking, uh I don't know, back parking lots, you know, looking for people that were doing break-ins. Right. And we ran into these three people in a car, and so my partner was a veteran, he knew them all, and he knew that they were they were part of the system. So there's a no no trespassing sign. You guys are you guys are all going in.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_05

Uh I um that it was really uneventful and lame, but that was my uh first arrest.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Um before I get into like anything too serious, what to what about your well let me rephrase it this way. What's the best part and the worst part of police work?

SPEAKER_05

The best part uh for me would be catching the bad guy.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

Ride-Alongs And Public Perception

SPEAKER_05

You know, just your basic, right? It doesn't get any more basic than catching the bad guy, and and I loved it. Uh I loved foot chases, I loved car chases. That's when your adrenaline goes, right? And and and if you can catch a legitimate bad guy, then that's great satisfaction there, right? Of course. Um helping people is is always great, it gives you a good feeling, but I I hardly ever felt that. You know what I mean? It's like I hardly ever felt like I'm I'm I'm really helping someone here, you know. Um those few times felt great. Um, and and as I got further and further into the into the job, into my career, I started focusing more on, you know, let's help people. Uh, that's that's that's my basic goal is is to is to make someone's life better. Um so if making an arrest, like let's say it was a domestic situation, and and I just knew that this was a this was a good family having a bad night. Right. Um and making an arrest in this situation is not gonna help them, I would do everything I could not to make an arrest. Um so so helping families, helping good people is is probably the best part. Um catching the bad guys, helping good people, best parts. Um, worst parts uh it could be um the the boredom, the monotony of of slow shifts, overnight shifts where nothing was happening. Yeah. Um the the in internal stuff, you know, like from the higher-ups from department, like administration. Um that's always co-op's biggest gripe is is you know within the department, the problems they're having. Not it's not outside, it's not dealing with bad guys. That that's something we can handle easily. It's it's the internal stuff that gets you, you know, like getting in trouble, which I did quite a bit uh within the department. Shock. Yeah. Um so yeah, I mean, I guess I guess uh that would be my okay.

Joining Regional SWAT And Training

SPEAKER_01

Well, I um I know I shared with you previously that you know two of my two of my kids are police officers, and and I know that they have said to me more than once, dad, you just you don't understand, or not you don't understand, dad, but what a lot of the public doesn't get is every day that we're on the job, every day we're out on the streets, we're dealing with the worst of the worst, the scum of the earth, you know, and and and people don't see that, they don't they don't have that uh idea about us, and then of course they're always wanting the most grace and and and expect perfection from from their from their um from their police officers. And uh and I never really put that together, but but yeah, it's it's so true that it's not you you guys aren't out getting getting kittens out of trees and stuff like that. It's you you deal with the worst people on a daily basis. So that's uh yeah. Um and I guess it would be I guess it would be um nice or helpful if a if more of the public understood that. I mean, basically walk in a cop's shoes for for one shift, you know, or or do you guys in do you guys in in Boston or in the Boston area, do you guys say tours instead of shifts? When you're talking ride-alongs? Well, when you well like your like your your your your daily shift, do you guys call it a shift? Do you talk call it a tour?

SPEAKER_05

So um I've no tour, no, we don't use the term tour.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, okay. I've heard it called a tour, you know, so I that's why I was asking. That's all. Um but but yeah, for the public for the public to to to take a ride along and walk in a cop's shoes, that would be something. I think they they would really get a grasp of of what what police work is.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, I I um recommend anyone do a ride-along. Yeah, um, I've taken lots of people. Uh we have we run the uh the Waltham Citizens Academy, and um the end of that is a ride-along. So um people love it, man. People really enjoy it. You know, get out there with a cart for a couple hours and and um it's eye-opening, you know. It's it's it's uh something's really special that anyone should take advantage of.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I I you know I wholly agree with that. So um you made a transition to SWAT. How did how did that and that was after what? How many years were you on were you on uh the streets before you did that?

SPEAKER_05

So it was my first opportunity, which uh was about 10 years in. Right. So out in in Massachusetts, we have um we we have uh a cooperation of departments, uh cities and towns. So very, very few police departments need a full-time SWAT team. Okay, it's it's very expensive and time consuming. Um so only the biggest departments in the country have their own SWAT teams.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_05

So out in Massachusetts, someone had the the great idea to cooperate and and and join, you know, join all these departments together. Um and so my my area had the first one and they called it a law enforcement council. So um, so my area was covered by uh the northeastern mass law enforcement council. So so it's NEMLEC, right? And once when they expanded and and um Waltham joined, I jumped on it, man. It was it was my goal. Uh my whole career was to you know get on SWAT. And um so when I left when I left the team, we were we were up to uh over 50 cities and towns. Okay. Anytime 50 communities needed a SWAT team, we would go. So we were on call 24-7. And that's how I got involved in SWAT.

SPEAKER_01

What kind of um what kind of training is involved in in becoming part of a SWAT team? Something that's I mean more different than what the uh what the typical police academy training would be.

Boston Marathon Bombing Response

SPEAKER_05

Uh the basics of a SWAT team are um entries, you know, building entries, um serving high-risk warrants, uh barricade persons, you know, armed barricaded persons. So uh we did a lot of training on entries, uh, breaching doors, breaching windows. Um, so so you call in a SWAT team because you got a dangerous situation and you want it done as safely as possible. Right. Um people don't realize SWAT teams that Get into a lot of shootouts are really not that good of a SWAT team because you're trying to avoid that. Um, and and my team had very, very few um shootouts with people because we were very effective in in how we performed and and you know things that we did correctly that other teams a lot of like a lot of small teams don't have the manpower to do it correctly. Um and we learned from LAPD SWAT.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_05

We knew that if we wanted to be a great team, we had to learn from the greatest team. And um, and they've been the gold standard ever since they were the first SWAT team. They they created the the Word SWAT, right? Uh uh every year we would have their top guys come out and do a week of training with us, and and they would bring us up to speed on all right, what's new? Because it's always changing, right? What's new? How how are we um how are we gonna improve the the way we do things?

SPEAKER_02

Right, right.

SPEAKER_05

So we trained, my team trained uh twice a month, uh, so two full days a month we were training, and then um, and then the the one week a year where it we really had some intense stuff from from LAPD. And um, yeah, and then everyone was obligated to train on your own, right? Keep up your physical standards. We had very, very high physical standards on my team, right? So that was up to us individually. Yeah, I mean you can guess how a SWAT team would train.

SPEAKER_01

Sure. Sure. Um so tell me about the most the most harrowing incident that you were a part of.

SPEAKER_05

So the most famous incident was was the Boston Marathon bomb. The bombing, yeah. The the brothers. Um and that and uh so we were called in. We we assisted Boston on any anything major that they had. They weren't part of Nemleck, but we assisted them when they needed you know extra manpower, extra teams. So we got called in right after the bombs went off. And we stayed that entire week. And right up until Thursday evening when when the big shootout in Watertown happened, we went in to Watertown and we we were there doing the search um all the way up through through Friday evening. Um, you know, everybody remembers the boat, right? The boat sitting in the driveway, right? Right, and everyone was watching that helicopter view. Uh, so my team held the inner perimeter on that boat. We were all about 30 feet away uh while while the FBI was trying to negotiate him out. We all thought that he had uh you know uh a bomb in there, uh possibly a suicide vest, possibly you know another bomb, and that he's gonna sit in and just blow us all up.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_05

So the standing order was no one approaches the boat. They were trying to get him out so we could safely see that he didn't have a bomb.

SPEAKER_02

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_01

And let me sorry, at this point, one of the brothers was already um wasn't he already yeah, that's right. Was that the same day or the day before that had happened? That was Thursday evening. Okay, all right.

SPEAKER_05

So, and the the younger brother got pulled out of the boat Friday evening, full 24 hours later.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_05

So, I mean, I don't know, heroin, I I don't know. Um I I I I probably had a hundred swap. I'm sorry, I probably had a thousand swap missions over my 16 years.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Uh we got shot at. Um I've been stabbed at. Uh I I don't know. It's there's too many, too many stories in my my dried up old brain right now to pull one out for you. So yeah, but I've been to a I've been to a uh a scene, a homicide scene with seven bodies.

SPEAKER_01

Um I don't know, man. But that okay, but going back going back to the the the the Boston Marathon bombing, I mean that was obviously like you said, you know, that's the highest profile one. I mean that that was that one made national news, you know. Actually, I think that would probably made world news. Um just because of the nature of the incident. It's a um it's a world famous marathon for you know an another. And you know, that was what in 2013, I think it was. Okay, so really timeline. We're not we're not uh too terribly far removed from uh 9-11. Uh it's on the East Coast. So you have all these factors, you know, that that kind of kind of play a part in it. It's just it it was a it was a big time in um in history, fortunately, that there were only what like I think three three fatalities.

Hidden Angles And Investigations

SPEAKER_05

Three fatalities at the bombing site. Right. Um and then a Boston cop uh died uh I think within a week um of injuries he sustained um from the blast.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. So he was was he uh was he uh a runner or was he providing security or no he he was he was there and um they're contributing the concussions of the bombs to to his his uh death.

SPEAKER_02

Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.

SPEAKER_05

And then and then Sean Collier was executed by the brothers. He was the MIT cop. Um that was Thursday evening prior to the shootout in Watertown.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, okay, man, and to be a part of that though, just uh that's uh man, that's something. That's something you have have you uh and this just this just came to me. Have you ever considered or been approached to to to to to document that to write to write you know your your side of the story on that?

SPEAKER_05

Uh no. Uh I did do a I did like a uh an audio documentary series.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_05

Uh where I was interviewed um uh a reporter, an investigative reporter, a local Boston girl named Michelle McPhee. Okay, she wrote two books. Um and she's the world's foremost authority on Boston bombers. Oh wow, yeah. And I I mean, I told you if we really got into it, it would take hours. Uh, because of of all everywhere that their story goes, okay, like most people don't realize the older brother was a rat for the FBI. Did you ever hear that? No, yeah. No again, yeah, again, an FBI asset that they lose control of, right? How many times have you heard that one? All right, look, all right, I'm I'm probably gonna blow your mind right now.

SPEAKER_00

Um, the well, you already blew my mind once, so what's what's another time?

SPEAKER_05

Listen to this, Ben. Listen, listen to this. All right, the brother did a triple murder in my city a year before the bombings.

SPEAKER_01

You ever hear that? No, no, and and obviously got away with it.

SPEAKER_05

Um, well, it's too late to prosecute him now, but um yeah, so so get um this triple murder, right? Yeah, guess guess the date that it occurred.

SPEAKER_01

Oh no. Don't tell me it was the same day as the Boston Marathon. No, you're cle you're close. Okay. It was 9-11. Oh man, I had to go, it was gonna be one or the other. I'm trying to position myself here. I got the sun coming in now, and I'm trying to position myself here to keep out of the keep out of the sun. Oh man, 9-11. Yeah, and you know, he I'm sure that was on purpose. He's Muslim, right?

SPEAKER_05

Right, yeah, so coincidence?

SPEAKER_01

No, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_05

I don't think so. And so he so he was with an accomplice for those murders. Um, the motive was uh a robbery because they they robbed um drug dealers who they were they were friends with. Okay, and so his accomplice fled to Florida. So the FBI went down to Florida to interview this guy, right? And what do you think happens to him during the interview? The FBI shoots him to death.

SPEAKER_01

Oh okay, that's uh that's a little fishy. Yeah.

From Casting Calls To Expedition Impossible

SPEAKER_05

And the the guy who built the bombs is still running around free right now. To this day? Yes, the brothers didn't build the bombs. Wow. Yeah, what uh if if anyone's interested in this story, it's fascinating. Um, so look up Michelle McPhee's uh her first first book was called um Maximum Harm. And um it's a fascinating book, covers the whole thing. But anyway, um Wow. All right, what else you got for me?

SPEAKER_01

That's a lot too well you could just see there's so many different um so many different layers to this. That's fascinating. Um okay, so two reality shows. All right. How does how does how does a cop from Waltham become a part become a part of two reality shows?

SPEAKER_05

Okay, so um so I told you I love challenges, right?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

And so I I would compete. Um I I competed in powerlifting, obstacle racing. Uh I I did a competition called the toughest cop alive one time for the uh New England law enforcement games.

SPEAKER_02

All right.

SPEAKER_05

But anyway, uh at the time, this was back in the day when um Survivor was big. Yeah, you know, like um Richard Hatch was the first winner of Survivor. Everybody knows that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Um, and I said, All right, this looks like a great challenge. I'm gonna I'm gonna apply to this show. And and I applied, and of course I didn't hear anything from them, right? But come to find out that casting directors travel around from show to show, they don't just stay one, okay? And and if they find someone they like, they'll keep their records um just in case something comes up. Um you know, they go, Hey, I remember this guy. I think he would be good for this show that I'm casting now, right?

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_05

So, like just out of the blue, my cell phone rings, and um I'm known number, and the guy says, Hey, I'm a casting director, you don't know who I am, but I know who you are. Um, I saw your your audition tape for Survivor. I'm I'm casting for a new show now, and I think you would be great. I want, so we're doing teams of three, and I want a Boston area cop team. So go out, find two more people, two more cops, and then get back to me. And so he could tell me very little about the show, everything to do with reality TV secret, right? So he only gave me like basic information, but I I kind of got the idea it was somewhere between Survivor and Amazing Race.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_05

So um I grabbed two people, two two two cops from my department, um, and and we just you know started going further and further in the process. You know, they they start with uh a whole, they start with a thousand entries and then they just keep narrowing it down. Right. Okay, so and we just stayed in the process every time they narrowed it down. Um yeah, so that's uh that's how it all started.

SPEAKER_01

Let me ask you this. Now, were your buddies were they like willing participants, or did you have to twist their arm to do this?

SPEAKER_05

Well, first I had to convince them that I it I wasn't just busting their balls, you know, that I was serious. Yeah, that got this phone call and it's for real. Um but yo, I mean, once they once they talked about it with their family, and and um, and their family was like, why don't you go for it, man? Um yeah, they were definitely willing. And I knew I I you know, I wasn't gonna ask someone that I knew wasn't, you know, adventurous and athletic and and tough, um, and and that I could get along with, you know, because I knew I was gonna be stuck with these people for a long time. Right. So yeah, the the first two people I asked, um it went full steam ahead, and the rest is history.

SPEAKER_01

And and what was the name of that that reality show?

Reality TV Myths And A Documentary

SPEAKER_05

That was called Expedition Impossible, okay, right? Everyone gets it wrong, um, because there's a ton of shows out there with expedition something, yeah, and then everyone wants to call it Mission Impossible. Hey Jim, Mission Impossible. No, it wasn't. Um, and it was a Mark Burnett production, right? So Mark Burnett is the man in reality TV. Yeah, he is. Yeah, yeah. He started Survivor, yeah. Um, and so so we met Mark Burnett, and um and and also like the name of the show and the location of the show was all all secret. So we didn't find out until like I think two weeks in advance, like where we were going. And that was an accident. Somebody posted something on the internet, somebody posted the logo on the internet, and they weren't supposed to, and then we just we saw it, and um, we were like, Well, that's out of the bag now. So um it, yeah, it was taking place in Morocco. And okay, yeah, I had to Google Morocco because I didn't know where it was. Uh come to find out it's it's north, it's northwest Africa, yeah. Right, yeah. Um and and and this was this was January in Boston, okay, and we had like a foot of snow every month that that winter, and we had to train to get ready for the show, right? They said you better have endurance, and so um we came up with three sets of uh of uh snowshoes, and so we would go on these team team uh snowshoe runs um to to try and get in shape for the for what we we were were guessing we were in for, and and we were in for it all right. It was it was miles and miles of crazy racing, it was an adventure race. Okay, and like every everything you can think of, uh it would and then we lived outside. Um, we would race from camp to camp and then just crash, like eat everything we could, and then sleep, and then they would wake us up before the sun came up, and we'd start all over again. We did it for 18 straight days, and and I loved it, man. I thought it was a magical time. Um, I loved every second of it, no matter how hard it was. Um yeah, you can still find it somewhere out there. Um Expedition Impossible.

SPEAKER_01

I I may have to do a search on that one, Jim, just so I can uh so I can so I can see you there and see how how it all worked out.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, and they tried to get rid of us, but they couldn't. Well, they eliminated the team every week, but we hung in there, man.

SPEAKER_01

You know, uh I I like that. And I I I like physical stuff, okay. You know, I like being being physical, being active, that kind of thing. And um my audience doesn't know this, but remember that um remember that that reality show Wipeout? Yeah. With the with the obstacle course. See, I love obstacle courses, okay? I love all that stuff. Yeah. So they had a casting call here um locally. Gosh, this had to be 15, 16 years ago, maybe even longer. You know, that the show was still fairly new at the time, probably only been on a couple of years. And so I thought, ah, you know, I'm gonna go check out this casting call. So this is when um when ESPN zone restaurants were around, you know. This is when we start ESPN zones in various places. And um, so I went down to the casting call, went by myself, and um made it through. And they said, okay, you know what, somebody's gonna get a hold of you, set up an appointment, whatever. Then they they give me an appointment time, tell me I have to go out to Burbank, this little tiny building. It's got these little tiny studios. They call my they call my name, okay, go into this room, and let me clear so I got something popping up on my screen here. They um they call me into this room, it's set up with a camera, and it had I I guess it was maybe uh some like maybe an associate producer or something. They start doing a video interview, and they're trying to get, you know, I just you know, they want to feel out your personality and that kind of stuff. And um, so I went through that process and it uh it ended up like the the the video ended up with uh because they wanted they just you know they want some meat, you know, and so I just kind of gave them whatever I thought I could give them. I ended up taking my shirt off and you know that kind of stuff, you know, for the camera. And um uh needless to say, I never got a another call because I didn't make it to wipe out.

SPEAKER_05

But but um, yeah, so they're they're looking for certain things, right? So I call them hooks.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

Fitness After 60: Muscle First

SPEAKER_05

And one thing they love is a label, they want to put a label on you, right? So so Boston cop was always my label, you know, but I I got sweat. Um so they they love. Um almost every show has has a cop on there, right? They love Boston, right? Because we have these horrible accents. And they love like crazy people, right? Crazy people make great reality TV. That's a little drama to it all. I went to many of these uh open calls. Okay. And and and and I learned what they were looking for. Luckily, I had I had a lot of the hooks already. Um so and then I knew what else they were looking for. Okay. Um they they want people who who are not reserved, they want people who are not gonna hold back.

SPEAKER_01

Definitely, definitely. Um, and so I would I would always get callbacks.

SPEAKER_05

I can't even remember how many callbacks I've had different shows, and at the time, um it was all in-person stuff. Like you would actually show up at a bar or a hotel or something. Now they're doing anything um online.

SPEAKER_01

I'm gonna move, I'm gonna move myself, Jim. I'm moving seats. Keep talking. All right, all right, get out of the sun. That's it. All right. So uh let me turn this camera here.

SPEAKER_05

So my okay. I'm I'm I'm not a huge reality TV fan, but one of my shows is Big Brother. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

I'm familiar with that.

SPEAKER_05

Um that's my favorite, and I watched that one religiously, and and I I always try to get on, okay? Yeah. And but the thing is, if you've been on another reality show, they they don't they don't want you, you know, unless it's one of unless it's a CBS show. Like you can be on Amazing Race and then they'll take you on Big Brother.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_05

Um, but if you're on any other networks um shows, they they they just they blackball you, right? So um I had I like my second call, my first call back for Big Brother, it was before I got on any shows, um, but I didn't make it. And then my second callback for Big Brother was after I was on um Expedition Impossible. So as soon as that casting director found out that that I was on another show, he's like, Oh, well, you know, who we can't even go any further, then they're not gonna accept you, right? And I was like, Oh, that's stupid, you know. So um what was his name? Uh Catal um Catalano. Catalano? Anyway, he was um he was like the main casting director for for Big Brother. And what's his name? His first name, Michael? Maybe Michael, right? So so um, so now the next year there's another open call for Big Brother in Boston, and I'm like, I'm going in there. Hopefully, I won't see uh Michael, right? Oh, yeah, yeah. So I go in and I don't see him anywhere, and so they interview me, and and the interviews are awful because they'll they'll have one casting director, and then they'll take like five people at once, and they'll you'll go around this table, and then the casting director will just like give you maybe like five seconds, you know, you know, hey, tell me why you should be on the show, or or tell, you know, tell me something about yourself. And if you don't feel it right away, you're just you're done, right? So um, I knew what to do, I knew uh to be kind of a jerk, and and and I was I was telling her, you know, why are you casting so many lame people? Um anyway, so then she goes, she goes, all right, well, I thank you all for coming in. Um you can all leave now, except for you. Except for you, except for you. So she's like, All right, uh, you're gonna come back for for uh the next round, okay? And try not to be so much of a jerk. Um so we'll be in touch, right?

SPEAKER_01

A little bit is okay, but not too much. Not too much.

SPEAKER_05

So um then I I get um I get set up for an interview, an in-person interview on camera that's gonna happen on Friday, right? And so Thursday, my phone rings. And and she's like, Hi, Jim. Yeah, um, this is uh so-and-so from Big Brother. Yeah, Michael saw your name on the list. Um, don't bother coming in tomorrow. So that was the end of that. I still might try it again, though. I still might try because he left, he's no longer the casting, the lead casting director for them. So I might try it again.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and they're still uh let me see. They're still doing Survivor, they're still doing Amazing Race, I think, and they're still doing Big Brother. So yeah, those those three shows are still out there.

SPEAKER_05

Those are the big three.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

So I couldn't get on, couldn't get on one of the big three.

SPEAKER_01

Well, it's not too late. Yeah, no, it's never too late. Um, there was a um there was a a documentary that came out uh not too long ago. It was was it 15 minutes of reality, something like that? That you were what um kind of what was what was that about?

SPEAKER_05

Um, reality fans and reality contestants.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

Sprinting, Sleds, And Smart Cardio

SPEAKER_05

So um they they focused on me for some reason. It um the the show, the producer of the show, um it took him years, like most documentaries take years to shoot. Some some of them take 20 years, right? I think his took probably about 10 years that he you know kept on coming out and and interviewing me and following me around again. But um, yeah, it's so it's an hour-long documentary on on sort of what it's like to be a super fan and what it's like to be a contestant, and what it's like to be a casting director. So they they interview people from from uh all angles of reality.

SPEAKER_01

So did they so in this in this documentary, did they um like did they want to put a lot of focus like on your personal life, or was it just more about your experience on the reality shows? What was that all about?

SPEAKER_05

I think it was the the life. So for me, they focused on like how how did being on a show change my life, okay, if at all, and and what were my expectations and and what is the reality to reality shows.

SPEAKER_02

Okay. Okay, I get it. All right.

SPEAKER_05

Like people, you know, anyone who thinks they're gonna get on a reality show and become a a like a famous person, um you you you're more likely to get hit by lightning, you know. Some people did, some people definitely did get famous in a career on on being on on a reality show, but it's very, very rare.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's absolutely right. Um so I know that you are I know that you're into you know physical fitness and and and we talked a little earlier, and you have you know, you you have a website that you're not here to plug because you know, for whatever reason, and that's okay. But um I do want to touch on the physical fitness aspect of it simply because like we we had talked earlier, you you and I are both in our 60s, and as we get older, it just seems to be you know it it really seems to be important to to take care of yourself to stay physically fit because as we get older, you know, the body doesn't want to do as much as it did, you know, years years before. And the only way that we can continue to keep up with what it is that you know it to keep up as best we can with with what we've been able to do in the past physically is just to stay active and stay moving all the time. Um, do you agree with that?

SPEAKER_05

Oh, yeah, definitely. Definitely um do something active every day. Yeah. And and I always say the key to my fitness is I never let it slip. Um, I've been active my entire life. Yeah, I never went through a period where I gave up, right? And I stopped being physical and and training and working out, yeah. Um, and I and I always push um muscle. Muscle is the key to everything. Diet is is important, but um building and retaining muscle is the key. Right. People want to hear it, especially women, they don't want to hear it. Um, but yeah, any any real expert will tell you that, and that's what I focus on. Um, heavy resistance work, you know, and so I always say resistance work because you don't have to lift weights, you can do push-ups, you can do pull-ups, right? You can do exactly exactly mechanics, but but but stressing those muscles. Um, you know, at this point in my life, at my age, I'm not gonna build any more muscle. So I try and build, and I'm satisfied with retaining.

Where To Find Jim And His Screenplay

SPEAKER_01

Um at least maintain what it is that you have. Um let it go. Don't let out go. Right. You know, I have um I have a friend of mine, he just celebrated his 80th birthday last week. And I'm telling you right, I'm telling you right now, Jim, that guy looks like, I mean, honestly, he looks like he could be 15 to 20 years younger. And I mean, him and I we talk about it. When we both we're we're look, even at 60, I still consider myself an athlete, okay? Because that's what I've that's what I've been, you know, most of my life. But but we him and I, we talk about it, and it's about resistance training. If you can lift weights, go ahead and lift weights, but not everybody has that has that available to them. So it's it's all about creating resistance, whether it's through body weight, through bands, that type of stuff, and it's staying active, it's staying, you know, uh, it's just keeping yourself moving and creating resistance.

SPEAKER_05

Yes, yeah, and and too many people want to, you know, go for a brisk walk. Uh you know, spend spend an hour on the treadmill. Not into that, no, yeah. No. Um, that you can do that on top of your resistance work. Right, right, right. But nobody wants to hear that, you know. It's like, oh yeah, I I work out. I I I go for a walk uh every other day. Well, you know, walking is the oldest form of transportation. Um that's that's not a workout, okay? You need to stress your muscles, every single muscle in your body. Yes. That's the key to it all.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, completely agree with that. You know, I every year on on my friend's birthday, he takes a picture of himself with his shirt off. And, you know, it's like, I'll tell you, the last picture he sent me with his shirt off, I was like, man, it just made me want to put on a second shirt. I couldn't believe it. I just, you know, I I I um he sent it to me and then I texted him back. I said, You and I are never standing shoulder to shoulder with our shirts off. I said, because you know, my abs are never gonna look like yours. You know, it's a it was a I was just amazed. I was just amazed, you know. But yeah, it's so it is so good, you know, and and look, we all want to live long, healthy lives. The longer you live, you you you you don't want to make it harder on yourself. And that's the problem with a lot of a lot of folks as they get older. Yeah, we all slow down, but you don't want to be to the point where you're having to use a walker or a cane uh because you've let your you've you've let your muscles go, and you have no you have no um uh muscle mass any longer, uh, and you can't carry yourself, or you don't want to be bedridden, you don't want to just be sitting in a chair all day or no and and all night. You know, you want to get out there and and if you're gonna live to be a hundred, come on, do it right.

A Call For Good Police Recruits

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, it's about quality, not quantity. Right, right. You know, I think the vast majority of people live too long now. Um I I always say I want to die with my boots on, right? Um, I don't want to spend my final year or two laying in a bed. No, that's not that's not life.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's not that's not quality at all, no.

SPEAKER_05

No, no. Get out there and and and live and and be active and be strong. Be strong.

SPEAKER_01

Well, just so you know, Jim, being that I'm 60, I'm only at midlife because I've I've told my family I'm living to 120, so I'm gonna outlive even my grandkids and I'm gonna piss them all off.

SPEAKER_05

Well, um, it's possible. It's possible. I certainly don't want to outlive my grandchildren, but um yeah, let's uh let's see what happens. Let's uh hang in there, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you know, um what is what is kind of uh some of your your fitness routine besides obviously you know resistance. I mean be a little a little maybe a little more specific in that.

SPEAKER_05

Uh I do my uh the first thing I do when I hit the gym is I stretch because it's um it's it's awful, it's boring, it's painful, and if I don't get it over with first, I won't do it. Yeah, then I foam roll. Foam rolling changed my life. Wow. Um anyone, yeah, you you gotta try foam rolling. It's it's painful as hell, you'll hate it, okay? But that pain that you find is a problem. That it's there's a problem in that area. Yeah, it's too tight, there's um, there's scar tissue built up, and and and you're breaking up that scar tissue. Um, and and it will give you flexibility, it will give you strength. Uh, I'm you know, it took me, it took me, I don't know, maybe years, but I cannot find any more pain uh throughout my whole body when I when I foam roll now.

SPEAKER_02

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_05

Um yeah, and that's key. You want to get to that point, takes a long time, takes a long, painful time. Yeah, but do it just you know, so it's that's the second thing I do. Um and um running, I think, is important. So my gym has an outdoor track, and as long as there's not show on it, I'll go out there and I'll I'll do a couple of laps.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_05

And um, and I always say that if if you have to run, let's say you have to save a baby or whatever, right? And and you need to move, you're gonna need to get there as fast as possible, right? You're not gonna jog, you you're not gonna, you're not even gonna run, you're gonna sprint.

SPEAKER_02

Sprint, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_05

So so if you haven't sprinted in 20 years and you go out and try and sprint, what do you think is gonna happen?

SPEAKER_01

It's not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_05

So so I I try and sprint every time I go and and I work out, right? And I again you got to ease into that. Um so um, and then then I will I'll hit a heavy bag because what if I have to fight somebody, right? Um, the same thing's gonna happen with sprinting. I'm gonna hurt myself trying to punch somebody, right? So that's part of my routine. Um, I'll do uh body weight squats, which is is um uh you know, squats are great, but look, you know, putting a load on your spine can be a problem, and and I can't get away with it anymore. Um it I I'll just I'll get hurt. One of my vertebrae will twist or whatever. So I'll do body weight squats and I'll do um high numbers, full full body weight squats. Um that's that's the beginning of my workouts, and that takes me about half an hour, and then I'll get right into my resistance work, right? My muscles, and then I finish um every training. I finish with uh a sled. So I'll do sled work.

SPEAKER_02

We have oh wow, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

We've got we've got sleds in my gym, and we've got um like a uh astroturf, it's it's six feet long, and I'll hook up um a couple of straps, I'll load up the uh the sled with weight, and then I'll pull it back, and then I'll push it forward, and I'll do five rounds of that as fast as I can, and and talk about getting your heart going, man. Heart and lungs, man, that is a killer, and that's that's how I end my workout.

SPEAKER_01

And there's your cardio right there, not walking on a treadmill for an hour. Exactly.

Closing And Subscriber Reminders

SPEAKER_05

I just saw yeah, I just saw an expert the other day saying that um one minute of of intense cardio is equal to one hour of easy cardio. So why spend why spend an hour right looking at the TV or reading a book or something? Yes. Over with, man. I get it over with fast, and I get more benefit out of it that way.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. And that's I think that's been I think that's the frustration of a lot of people, not just men or women, but both combined, is you know, they'll they'll sign up for a membership at a gym, and they go to the gym and they'll spend 30, 40 minutes walking on a treadmill, and they do very little resistance after that, and then they get frustrated and wonder why their body isn't changing. And it's because, yeah, you're spending too much time walking. Yeah, it's good for your heart, but you can create all of that cardio work in your resistance training itself. Yes, it depends on the pace that you do it. That's why it's it's you you work out for a certain you do a set for a certain amount of time or a certain amount of reps, and you take very little rest in between. That way you keep your heart rate up and you keep it going. It's funny how we we went from police work to physical fitness.

SPEAKER_05

Two big aspects of my life.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's all right, though. Um, so uh I've been look, Jim, I'll tell you what, I didn't even know what to expect last week when um when you and I spoke and set this up. I had no idea what to expect, but I've enjoyed this. This has been this has really, really been good. And um, you know, I I know we didn't go too in depth on this, uh, on the on the whole Boston Marathon thing, but you know, you've probably told that story many times in the past, it you know, and and it can be kind. Kind of uh tough trying to repeat some of that stuff all the time. So I completely understand. But where can people find you? If someone wants to look you up, check out either check out your your website, uh find out uh more about your reality stardom. Um and or or look, maybe there's somebody watching this or listening to this. I hope they're not watching this. I mean, I'm just uh I'm bleached out from the sun, but but somebody listening to this and uh they want to reach out and get more of your story. Maybe uh there's uh someone out there who really wants to document this stuff.

SPEAKER_05

Uh I'm on Twitter or or X, yeah um way too much. And use my name, it's just at Jim Baglia, and you'll find me there. And um I respond to everyone. And and through through X, you can get a hold of me. Um I I enjoy podcasts. I listen I listen to podcasts every day.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

And I enjoy being a guest um and having interesting conversations with people like yourself.

SPEAKER_02

I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_05

I'm I'm open if uh anybody wants to talk to me. Um yeah, I mean I have I have all the other social media stuff except tick tick tock. I refuse to um have a TikTok account. Um but I have all the others. I I don't really check them. I have Facebook and um yeah, you can find me on all that stuff. You can you can Google my name and and a lot of stuff will pop up.

SPEAKER_01

Well look, Jim. Look, I would I was very resistant on TikTok for a long time. In fact, I I've been on TikTok now, maybe for it hasn't even been a year. I was very resistant, but resistant to it because of all the controversies behind it and all that. But then once I once once word was coming down that um that the United States was gonna have more ownership and say so in it and that kind of thing, I thought, all right, it'll it'll be a little more safe for me. And I use it to promote this podcast. That's it, you know. I use it for that, and that, and that's about it. I don't I don't go on a bunch of other stuff, but uh so I hear you on that, and and I know there's always been a lot of resistance to to TikTok from from us older people, not so much the teenagers.

SPEAKER_05

Right, yeah. No, teenagers, you kidding me, they couldn't live without it. Um yeah, definitely. But yeah, so I I have nothing to promote, I'm not trying to sell anything. So, but if I did, I would probably have to have a TikTok account because everybody looks at now, right? Um, one thing, one thing I didn't mention was that um I have a screenplay. I wrote a screenplay. Oh wow, and it it's it's professional grade screenplay. It took me two years. I was actually part of a whole organization um called the the um Harvard Square Screenwriters. And um I you know one of my goals in life is to see that produced to a feature-length movie, but uh believe it or not, it's a cop story. And yeah, if there's anybody out there with connections that you know want to read my screenplay, then you can you can reach out to me for that also.

SPEAKER_01

Nice, nice, that's good. And well, of course it's gonna be uh cop stuff, it's what you know best. Why not? You write what you know. That's exactly it. You know, um you talked about not having anything to promote, that kind of stuff, and and I think that some of a lot of times that is what helps to provide the bet for the for the best conversations between people, is when there's no agenda, it's just two people coming together and talking, and really that's kind of been um the whole purpose of my my podcast, besides the music aspect to it, because they do talk a lot about music, but it's just about uh people coming, telling their story, and having a conversation, and I I think that pod, you know, people who are listening to podcasts who take those in all the time, they just want to hear conversations, they want to hear stories.

SPEAKER_05

And uh well, we didn't really get into a lot of stories. Um, we got millions of stories. Um but so actually, um, I do have something to promote. Okay, okay. I I would like to promote law enforcement in in our country.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Okay um every police department in the entire country is hurting for good personnel. Um this this defund the police movement just uh decimated our ranks. It it vilified police departments and our our applicants dropped off a cliff. So I I I would like to see more good people apply to police departments. We need we need good people. Um so look into your local PD. Any any um you know, anybody young enough to still get on the job, you know, please consider it.

SPEAKER_01

No, I I agree with that wholeheartedly, Jim. You know, certainly like you know, we've talked about it, and my audience knows. I mean, my family is if they're not firefighters, they're police officers, and and I have a ton of that. So and I I agree with you over the last um it's probably been a good 10-15 years where um cities and agencies are not they're not getting the best of the best in applicants, in cadets, that kind of stuff. And um it's a shame. Fortunately, now in the last year plus, since since we changed um you know, we changed presidents, we've had an uptick in our military enlistment. And that's beautiful. People are stepping up, they want to serve this country, but we need that type of um engagement in our local communities, whether they're big or small cities or townships, whatever it might be. We need that that same engagement and that same enthusiasm when it comes to uh when it comes to law enforcement. Um, it's so vitally important. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah. I don't know what's gonna happen. Um the future just doesn't look great as far as police departments go. And we need to turn it around.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and and that I think it's just a whole it's a whole generational thing, a societal thing, um where parents need to go out and be parents and not be friends with their kids. And um, and I think that's where it starts. It starts in the home. Um the nuclear family is like the the bedrock of our country, and it's been crapped on by a lot of by a lot of uh outside entities, organizations, people in general, and and but that's where it begins. You know, when you have a mother and a father in the house, and you're holding your child responsible or accountable for their actions, behaviors, those types of things, those young men and women grow up to be responsible adults and law-abiding adults. And those are the kind of people that that law enforcement agencies are are looking for. Yeah. Yes. So yeah, no, good on you for for for calling that out though, too, for making that plea. That's yeah, good on you for that. Because it is so important. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

I I used to do backgrounds for candidates. That was part of my job um along my career.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Um, and and this was back in the day when we had thousands and thousands of applicants. And, you know, again, going back to the civil service exam, you know, that's how we would find our people. And I I would have so many applicants that I could just cut them. I could, if I didn't like something about someone, if I saw a red flag, I'd cut them, I'd move on to the next, right? And and I don't think I ever got below a 97 score on the exam, right? Right, right, right. Now they're looking at people in the 70s, they're scoring in the 70s. Yeah, you know, if you're a good, intelligent person and you want to be a cop, you can be a cop right now. You know, and if I can inspire someone to go into police work, that would be that would be awesome. That would um that would be one of the the best things I can do right now.

SPEAKER_01

Uh, but let's hope. Yeah, because it is, it it's not a job, it is a career, and it can be a very fruitful career and a fulfilling one as well, not just for the individual, but for you know, by extension, the family as well. And um it's it's it's obviously a very noble, noble career, too.

SPEAKER_05

It's more than a job, yes.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, most definitely, most definitely. So um, yeah. So hear that plea, people. Hear it and spread the word. Please. Um look, Jim, um, this has been great. It really has been. Um, I've enjoyed it immensely. Um, stick with me for a moment, and uh I'm gonna wrap this up. And uh, but stay with me, okay? All right, thank you, Ben. It's been fun. All right, yeah. All right. So listen, everyone. Uh I know I'm like half in the sun, half in the shade, but listen, uh, as you guys know, this program is available wherever you get your podcast. Just search the Ben Maynard program. Boom, it's right there. Download it, share it with your people, give me a five-star rating because I deserve it. Jim deserves it this morning, too. Um, but if you're uh bearing through the through the sun and the shadows and you're watching on YouTube, thank you for doing that. Just subscribe to the channel, hit the notification bell, give me a thumbs up and leave a comment. All right. Last but not least, follow me on Instagram, simply Ben Maynard Program All One Word, or on the TikTok at the Ben Maynard program. All right. So uh with that, we'll cut you guys loose. Enjoy the rest of the day. Um, I'll see you again right here on the Ben Maynard program. Tell a friend.